Will there be another lockdown

[Doublethecars]

In November time?

@MercyBooth

, reading stuff here complaining about lockdowns and mask wearing as not being able to go to pubs and the hairdresser is eye-popping

Sanctimony 101 from you @irresistibleoverwhelm I was waiting for this Thank You for proving me right! Im one of those family carers who keeps the person she cares for OUT of hospital and the social care system. I dont think a haircut and colour every few weeks from a stand alone business run by a working class woman to feel tidy and vaguely fucking human is too much to ask in return.

ALL FAMILY CARERS PICK A DATE. WE CAN ALL PICK A DATE AND DROP THE PEOPLE WE CARE FOR IN A AND E ALL ON THE SAME DAY. Hows that for a protest. Whos with me??!!!!!!

This. And this AGAIN. The entitlement on these threads with posters with zero grasp quite what the years preceding Covid represented for us in daily life is eye watering. I'd never have the bottle to dump my child in protest obviously but Jesus I'm with you in sentiment. This whole situation is not only hopeless -it's hopelessly managed, those here who feel they have some expert knowledge really would do well to look a little further from home for once.

@DoubleShotEspresso I am sorry that you have it but actually your example actually could be used to show that lockdowns are not necessarily going to be effective given that you havent done much and still have it

[quote 2389Champ]Worth reading this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58474536[/quote]
It will get ignored. As will this:

It's interesting to see how people talk about the NHS as if it exists for its own benefit; like "protecting the NHS" is something we do just for the sake of it.

The NHS being overwhelmed can potentially affect any of us, or our family members or friends. There are millions of people on the waiting lists currently for planned surgeries - that's millions of people living with pain or other symptoms that affect their daily lives. It might not be you or I at the moment but it could be.

We are not seeing the numbers of hospitalisations we did during the previous waves of covid and hopefully we won't do now with vaccinations. But the big difference between now and then is that hospitals stopped doing routine surgeries in the previous peaks and they can't do that now, so they're dealing with the backlog and an increasing amount of covid patients again. You can't train specialist doctors and nurses in 18 months so there's very little that could have been done so far to increase capacity.

[quote Quartz2208]@DoubleShotEspresso I am sorry that you have it but actually your example actually could be used to show that lockdowns are not necessarily going to be effective given that you havent done much and still have it[/quote]
Or indeed that other people have been coaxed into thinking that all is normal and inadvertently placed us at risk?
Maybe?
Let's be honest any lockdowns so far haven't been properly adhered to as threads just like this so accurately demonstrates. People are just too low on patience to think outside their own little world for a second-that's clear.

Are you sure it's being ignored rather than disbelieved? I mean, I don't know whether a lockdown, circuit breaker or anything else is currently being planned, but Boris Johnson's government saying something is neither here nor there, really. Doesn't tell us anything at all about what they might actually be planning.

@TheKeatingFive

Unless you really want us all dead?

Just what do people think the FR of covid actually is? You know now, with the vaccines?

Yes vaccines that are doing FUCK ALL to stop transmission. Just great

Let's be honest any lockdowns so far haven't been properly adhered to as threads just like this so accurately demonstrates.

How exactly does this thread demonstrate that? People are talking about compliance in the later stages. I've not seen anyone at all say they didn't observe requirements in the first lockdown.

They’re not doing FUCK ALL to stop transmission though. They are stopping some transmissions, not all transmission. It’s not like they’re either 100% or useless.

I am sorry you got ill, especially if you or someone else in your family is at greater risk, but there isn’t really a scenario where covid kills us all.

Yes vaccines that are doing FUCK ALL to stop transmission. Just great

Firstly that’s not true.

Secondly, the vaccines are incredibly effective in preventing severe illness.

Let's be honest any lockdowns so far haven't been properly adhered to as threads just like this so accurately demonstrates. People are just too low on patience to think outside their own little world for a second-that's clear.

Let's say for the sake of argument that that is true.

If people are as selfish and 'low on patience' as you claim, they're not going to suddenly become terribly 'compliant' for any future lockdown, are they? If people didn't 'comply' at the peak of the crisis, they're hardly going to do so after several months of near normality are they?

So even by your own logic, lockdowns are a piss poor tactic.

@DoubleShotEspresso Covid is here and not going anywhere. Unless you have a China style lockdown (which to be honest I am kind of thinking you are suggesting) they merely suppress to buy time.

Any lockdown now would be a case of managing the peak through suppression rather than anything else.

I have a feeling though you still think Zero Covid is possible

@FallingRussetLeaves
That is not a very coherent argument doubleshotespresso, maybe not surprising if you have covid. But the importance of the NHS continuing to be able to treat sick people is the very reason why lockdown to protect it cannot be permitted to become part of the toolkit. If we allow it in, it will be used as an alternative to proper funding for the ball to be kicked down the road a bit more.
What's incoherent?
Who on this thread is qualified to state what valid parts of the toolkit should be in place?
This thread shows what a dreadfully dangerous position we are in, nobody gives a shit about anybody else. Hair appointments, pub lunches etc are a priority for the majority whilst those of us with vulnerable family have no choice but to effectively shield, lose education and family contact. Then we still get this anyway because other people can't be bothered showing any common sense.
But it's okay -they're "living with it".
🙃

[quote Quartz2208]@DoubleShotEspresso Covid is here and not going anywhere. Unless you have a China style lockdown (which to be honest I am kind of thinking you are suggesting) they merely suppress to buy time.

Any lockdown now would be a case of managing the peak through suppression rather than anything else.

I have a feeling though you still think Zero Covid is possible[/quote]
Wow presumptions aplenty from you?
Just no

@IcedPurple

Let's be honest any lockdowns so far haven't been properly adhered to as threads just like this so accurately demonstrates. People are just too low on patience to think outside their own little world for a second-that's clear.

Let's say for the sake of argument that that is true.

If people are as selfish and 'low on patience' as you claim, they're not going to suddenly become terribly 'compliant' for any future lockdown, are they? If people didn't 'comply' at the peak of the crisis, they're hardly going to do so after several months of near normality are they?

So even by your own logic, lockdowns are a piss poor tactic.

All of this and then some, but also, say 100% of joe public DID comply totally with another lockdown and we all stayed sealed in our houses for the next 6months, presumably we still need police/health care/supermarkets/electricity/water to function etc etc - so people will still mix, and covid will still be around. Just look at Australia if you need a working example of this.

As you say @IcedPurple - lockdowns are piss poor

People who work in hairdressing and pubs need to work, they have Bill's to pay and kids to feed. We can't all just stay at home while the economy crashes.

@Quartz2208

Wow presumptions aplenty from you?
Just no
I don't desire a China style lockdown.
I'd have liked a previous sensible full (everything at once that yes, everybody would have been considerate enough to comply with).
Never happened did it? We were all about saving the economy, waiting out to help out, the summer, Easter , Christmas and corresponding shopping opportunities ....

Do I believe in zero Covid? Of course not that's lunacy.
A few sensible measures in place and a grasp of reality are what I'm alluding to, a bit of empathy for others with fewer choices would also be a pleasant change. But hey that's a tall order we had confirmed months ago.
Hope that helps

So what are you suggesting then @DoubleShotEspresso, how would you navigate your way through it

@IcedPurple

Let's be honest any lockdowns so far haven't been properly adhered to as threads just like this so accurately demonstrates. People are just too low on patience to think outside their own little world for a second-that's clear.

Let's say for the sake of argument that that is true.

If people are as selfish and 'low on patience' as you claim, they're not going to suddenly become terribly 'compliant' for any future lockdown, are they? If people didn't 'comply' at the peak of the crisis, they're hardly going to do so after several months of near normality are they?

So even by your own logic, lockdowns are a piss poor tactic.

So what's your scientifically supported logical alternative please? Because from where I'm sitting today current measures are the very definition of piss poor

[quote DoubleShotEspresso]@FallingRussetLeaves
That is not a very coherent argument doubleshotespresso, maybe not surprising if you have covid. But the importance of the NHS continuing to be able to treat sick people is the very reason why lockdown to protect it cannot be permitted to become part of the toolkit. If we allow it in, it will be used as an alternative to proper funding for the ball to be kicked down the road a bit more.
What's incoherent?
Who on this thread is qualified to state what valid parts of the toolkit should be in place?
This thread shows what a dreadfully dangerous position we are in, nobody gives a shit about anybody else. Hair appointments, pub lunches etc are a priority for the majority whilst those of us with vulnerable family have no choice but to effectively shield, lose education and family contact. Then we still get this anyway because other people can't be bothered showing any common sense.
But it's okay -they're "living with it".
🙃[/quote]
Pretty much everything you said.

You talked about how covid is easily transmitted and can be very dangerous. Gave no reason why you think this means my view that lockdowns aren't a reasonable response to the NHS because of the long term detriment is wrong. You discussed the fact that more minimal measures haven't kept us all safe, which tbf isn't wrong, but said nothing about how this was also true of actual lockdown, and then finished with a ridiculous hyperbole about wanting people dead.

You haven't even addressed the point you apparently disagree with, which is about the long term dangers of lockdown being used as an alternative to proper funding. And if I'm not qualified to give a view, by the same token you're not qualified to disagree with it.

I'd have liked a previous sensible full (everything at once that yes, everybody would have been considerate enough to comply with).
Never happened did it? We were all about saving the economy, waiting out to help out, the summer, Easter , Christmas and corresponding shopping opportunities ....

Can you name a comparable country where a 'sensible full' lockdown happened? What is their situation now? Everything fine and dandy?

So what's your scientifically supported logical alternative please? Because from where I'm sitting today current measures are the very definition of piss poor

Accept that most of us are going to get it sooner or later, perhaps vaccinate children, 3rd shot for some categories, keep an eye on hospitalisations and possibly introduce limited restrictions, but only if and when absolutely neccessary.

Hair appointments, pub lunches etc are a priority for the majority

If all you’re going to do is minimise the impact of lockdown on people, then you can hardly be surprised if they won’t continue. Huge impacts on finances, mental health, children’s education and prospects, relationships, and you can’t even so much as acknowledge that?

All of this and then some, but also, say 100% of joe public DID comply totally with another lockdown and we all stayed sealed in our houses for the next 6months, presumably we still need police/health care/supermarkets/electricity/water to function etc etc - so people will still mix, and covid will still be around.

Yup.

The problem is that it's in now. There being only so much social distancing it's actually possible to do whilst also keeping society functioning and people off the streets, it's going to keep spreading even if everyone fully complies with regulations. Understanding this doesn't mean you like it.

What is a ‘sensible full’ lockdown please?

And what happens when you lift it? Same as any other lockdown I presume.