Is anyone else suprised at just how many fully vaccinated people are catching Covid?

[RoseRedRoseBlue]

Exactly this. Sky were reporting today that appx 35% of those hospitalised were double jabbed and I had no idea it would be as high as that.

@bumbleymummy

Haven’t posted anything ‘skeptical’ about covid either. Really not sure where you’ve plucked that one from!

Oh come on now, you have posted repeatedly downplaying the impact of coronavirus, including that it's only serious for vulnerable people. That's a ridiculous statement.

What claims have I made about coronavirus?

And no, logic would suggest that if someone states that vaccines have reduced serious illness/death and cite reputable sources for their information on things like risk factors and immunity after infection then they aren’t actually an ‘anti-vaxx conspiracy theorist’ even if someone really wants them to be. :)

No, I’ve never said that it’s only serious for vulnerable people. That would be a ridiculous statement. Saying that older/vulnerable people are much more at risk or that younger, healthy people are low risk, is not ridiculous and is backed up by plenty of evidence.

@bumbleymummy

What claims have I made about coronavirus?

And no, logic would suggest that if someone states that vaccines have reduced serious illness/death and cite reputable sources for their information on things like risk factors and immunity after infection then they aren’t actually an ‘anti-vaxx conspiracy theorist’ even if someone really wants them to be. :)

Why are you ignoring this though? Honestly correct me if I'm wrong but surely you can see how this would imply your views on coronavirus and vaccines aren't coming from a unbiased place?

But the claims you make about coronavirus and the newly developed vaccines are simply those you've recycled from your posts on other infectious diseases like polio, mumps, rubella, HPV, 'flu, hepatitis etc.

There is a consistent theme in your posts that these diseases are not as serious as they're made out to be, and a general downplaying of the role and necessity of vaccination in their control, alongside the disproven claims about the MMR triggering autism in susceptible individuals.

You keep using the terms conspiracy theorist and anti-vax, but surely you can see how all together this implies a general anti-vaccine agenda? @bumbleymummy

You still haven’t actually told me what ‘claims’ I make about coronavirus so I’m not sure what you think I’m ignoring or what is biased about them.

And why do you just keep copying and pasting your own posts? It’s really strange

@bumbleymummy

You still haven’t actually told me what ‘claims’ I make about coronavirus so I’m not sure what you think I’m ignoring or what is biased about them.

And why do you just keep copying and pasting your own posts? It’s really strange

I copy and paste my posts because you reply but ignore 99% of them in your response.

I take it you're not replying because you don't have anything to say on it regarding your general views minimising the impact of infectious disease and downplaying the importance of vaccination

Regarding coronavirus - as I said - things like claiming it is only serious for CEV people, ignoring the impact of uncontrolled transmission on other outcomes etc.

I haven’t made the claim that it’s only serious for vulnerable people, I’ve already said you were wrong about that. Any other claims you think I’ve made?

Pointing out that rubella is mild disease in childhood and that mumps and rubella weren’t notifiable before the mmr was introduced (things you referenced in the other thread) is not ‘minimising the impact of infectious diseases’. I thought most people knew these things. I’m pretty sure that info is on the NHS website. And saying that clean water, sanitation and access to good healthcare had a massive impact on health (source: WHO) is not ‘downplaying the importance of vaccination’.

@bumbleymummy

I haven’t made the claim that it’s only serious for vulnerable people, I’ve already said you were wrong about that. Any other claims you think I’ve made?

Pointing out that rubella is mild disease in childhood and that mumps and rubella weren’t notifiable before the mmr was introduced (things you referenced in the other thread) is not ‘minimising the impact of infectious diseases’. I thought most people knew these things. I’m pretty sure that info is on the NHS website. And saying that clean water, sanitation and access to good healthcare had a massive impact on health (source: WHO) is not ‘downplaying the importance of vaccination’.

That is greatly twisting what you said, but sure

How about your claim that the MMR causes autism in susceptible children?

I’ve never claimed that MMR causes autism - in susceptible children or otherwise. I actually frequently corrected people who used the phrase mmr causes autism. At the time this was a hot topic (quite a few years ago now iirc), the vaccine was being investigated as a potential trigger for certain genetically susceptible children along with other potential environmental triggers.

@bumbleymummy

I’ve never claimed that MMR causes autism - in susceptible children or otherwise. I actually frequently corrected people who used the phrase mmr causes autism. At the time this was a hot topic (quite a few years ago now iirc), the vaccine was being investigated as a potential trigger for certain genetically susceptible children along with other potential environmental triggers.

@bumbleymummy, I have no idea why saying you didn't when it's all on MN and certainly wasn't in the context of which you're describing.

It’s not on MN because I have never said that the mmr causes autism. :) I remember several threads where that was the context actually.

Any other false accusations you want to throw at me? :)

The risk of death to children and young adults is extremely low. The new data from the Public health shows us its about 1-481,000 for kids with about 1-50,000 chance of being admitted in to intensive care.

So we know children are at extremely low risk.

We also know that deaths due to covid in 18-30s is also incredibly low.

So yes, covid is a killler of older people, people with underlying illnesses and certain ethic minorities.

So whilst its really serious for some, most are largely left unaffected. There is no point in pretending or trying to push the belief that CV kills or puts every one in ICU , most people with a brain cell know it doesn't. There is a middle ground that we have to find here.

The same people that were in the danger bracket are still in the danger bracket despite being vaccinated.

Ive had both vaccines, I have to as I work with pregnant women who most have chosen to decline it till the birth. If I didn't work in this sector knowing what I know now I probably wouldn't have had it.

My kids will not be having it, they are too young to be offered it in school. They do however have the flu vaccine - which is a killer to little kids, much more than people are aware of and tbh I know that already baby inoculations have already been interrupted massively during this time and it worries me that the children flu vaccine will be hampered/low uptake this year. Flu kills even healthy children. We are so focused of CV everything else has gone out of the window.

In fairness to @bumbleymummy, and I've known her opinions for over 10 years, as has most of MN, but having checked to refresh my memory, she has always maintained that she doesn't believe the MMR causes autism (her bolding from many many threads) but that "some people believe" and "experts are investigating if" something in the vaccine "may trigger autism"

I'll argue with her until the cows come home and beyond because I think she's wrong about almost everything she thinks, (on Covid, vaccinations, women's rights to bodily autonomy etc etc) but unless she used a different username the above, she "only" thinks the MMR may "trigger" autism. (threads stating this seemed to start around 2011 and crop up obvs every time the disgraced and discredited former doctor Andrew Wakefield gets his name mentioned)

I have had the vaccine and so has everyone I know but I’m not keen on the idea of giving it to young children yet.

I’m just waiting for the new variant terror show that is going to be rolled out when the vaccine programme for children is underway. I’m imagining about October, there will be rounds of horror stories trying to terrify people into getting it for their children NOW NOW NOW.

@3luckystars

I have had the vaccine and so has everyone I know but I’m not keen on the idea of giving it to young children yet.

I’m just waiting for the new variant terror show that is going to be rolled out when the vaccine programme for children is underway. I’m imagining about October, there will be rounds of horror stories trying to terrify people into getting it for their children NOW NOW NOW.

I agree. Luckily my kids go to private school are they won't override parents consent/opinions on it.

I still remember the kids that had the swine flu vaccine and developed narcolepsy, it was only ten years ago and in very very similar circumstances to these. Whilst I'll have the vaccine to to protect others I'm not so willing to make my kids do the same.

State schools do not override parental consent, what utter rubbish.

I really wish MN would moderate better in threads like this - other platforms delete anti-vaccer nonsense.

@ProseccoThyme

I really wish MN would moderate better in threads like this - other platforms delete anti-vaccer nonsense.

So much of it is in the grey area of presenting information in a misinformed way or without the appropriate context that misleads people. Lots of alluding to things without outrightly telling fibs

Hard to moderate in a way that doesn't lead to the classic we're in North Korea/1984/dystopian new world order comments.

I don't think I'm really surprised. Just over a year ago, the report on challenge trials on monkeys for the Oxford AZ vaccine came out. The vaccinated monkeys still became infected and could transmit the virus. However the vaccine seemed to stop the virus travelling to the lungs and causing more severe disease.

After reading those results, I felt primed not to expect anything too miraculous but just to hope the vaccine might bring hospitalisation and death figures down.

And it definitely has done that.

I think some people would positively thrive in a North Korea style state tbh

@Steakandcheeseplease

I think some people would positively thrive in a North Korea style state tbh

Urm

Don't think anyone is thriving in North Korea except those at the top.

@Steakandcheeseplease

I think some people would positively thrive in a North Korea style state tbh

And that has to do with being surprised (or not) that vaccinated people can still get Covid how exactly?

@Geamhradh you should probably spend a little time reading the thread. instead of diving in right at the end.