Thoughts on the non-vaccinated!

[UnluckyMe]

Why have people been so critical of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated against covid 19?

I've read all sorts of comments about those, like me, who chose not to be vaccinated calling us selfish, uneducated and so on. There seems to be a massive lack of respect for what others choose to do with their body and I'm just curious as go why people feel the need to make comments about it. There are obviously many who don't and I do acknowledge that, my post is more directed to thoughts on why the other side do (feels very playground bully like to me).

The way I see it is everyone has a choice - respect that choice and move on with life rather than throwing insults at one another or dwell on something out of your own control.

I'd also like to confirm i do not own tin foil hat, expect the end of days soon or believe everyone will drop dead in 6 months / will transform into magneto from X-Men (all those coins sticking to people's arms!)

I have followed the rules down to a tee but have just chosen not to be vaccinated at present. Maybe I will change my mind, maybe I won't 🤷‍♀️ who knows.

I am genuinely curious - I read on another post "all vulnerable and sensible people have had the jab" as a comment which riled me a bit too! I like to think I'm pretty sensible but clearly this Mumsnetter thinks otherwise 😆😆

"I find this with anti-vaxxers when it comes to their kids as well. I have literally never heard an anti-vaxxer acknowledge that their children are only safe from fatal diseases because of the herd immunity"

Nope this is absolutely not the case with me. All my children including myself have received our vaccinations from birth. I only have concerns about this particular vaccine and its newness.

Yeah I agree. But they won’t. It will be restrictions, as you well know when you choose not to get vaccinated.

You know that unvaccinated people can be immune too right?

No. I’m happy to take my chances with covid, regardless of how many people have been vaccinated. Its risk to me is far lower than many things I do on a daily basis without even thinking about them.

I'm not talking about that 'benefit' - I'm talking about the fact that restrictions are going to be lifted and your life is going to start getting back to normal, which would not be happening if everyone else had made the same decision as you. The restrictions are only lifting because others have taken a risk and had the vaccine, and you are benefitting from that decision.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make @Tinysalmonswimminginastream?

What is it you want people to say? Is there some kind of appropriate thankful gesture you feel people should be making if they declined the vaccine? Because they get to benefit from the easing of restrictions?

I hope you enjoy having to continue to quarantine/self isolate when vaccinated people don’t have to.

@RoseWineTime

I hope you enjoy having to continue to quarantine/self isolate when vaccinated people don’t have to.

In fairness, you can wish for that all you want, but it's becoming more and more evident this is not going to happen...

Nearly regretting bothering with the jab at all myself if I didn't need to after all!

@Tinysalmonswimminginastream

No. I’m happy to take my chances with covid, regardless of how many people have been vaccinated. Its risk to me is far lower than many things I do on a daily basis without even thinking about them.

I'm not talking about that 'benefit' - I'm talking about the fact that restrictions are going to be lifted and your life is going to start getting back to normal, which would not be happening if everyone else had made the same decision as you. The restrictions are only lifting because others have taken a risk and had the vaccine, and you are benefitting from that decision.

No, the majority of people who were most likely to end up in hospital decided to reduce their own personal risk by taking the vaccine. They’re benefitting from the vaccine and we’re benefitting from not having to use restrictions to protect them in the absence of a vaccine.

@bumbleymummy

Yeah I agree. But they won’t. It will be restrictions, as you well know when you choose not to get vaccinated.

You know that unvaccinated people can be immune too right?

Yes. And?

I work in a large secondary school. One of my colleagues, who comes into some level of contact with hundreds of people per day, decided she knows better than actual doctors and professors. Suffice to say she is currently very sick with Covid. If it only affected her then fine - but I feel for the 4 people who share an office with her who have spent 10 days in their flats/houses, cancelled plans, not being able to see their families, not been able to go to as much as a supermarket for 10 days. They are fuming and I am with them. Utterly selfish.

So there will be a high proportion of vaccinated people plus a lot of unvaccinated and immune people all contributing to herd immunity. And most of the unvaccinated people are young and not cv so unlikely to end up in hospital. The nhs struggles every year and we don’t implement restrictions to help them cope. It shouldn’t become the new norm with covid as the excuse.

@Treezan82

I work in a large secondary school. One of my colleagues, who comes into some level of contact with hundreds of people per day, decided she knows better than actual doctors and professors. Suffice to say she is currently very sick with Covid. If it only affected her then fine - but I feel for the 4 people who share an office with her who have spent 10 days in their flats/houses, cancelled plans, not being able to see their families, not been able to go to as much as a supermarket for 10 days. They are fuming and I am with them. Utterly selfish.

How would you feel about it if one of the vaccinated people got sick and everyone had to isolate?

The way I see it is everyone has a choice - respect that choice

No, I don’t respect that choice. Unless there are strong medical reasons, advised. Y your Gp or consultants, choosing not to have the vaccine is a selfish decision.

You are relying on others to keep you safe, and you are keying on others to do what you are refusing to do, to get this pandemic under control.

I have no respect for that choice.

I’m not relying on anyone to keep me safe. I really don’t feel like I’m in any real danger so I don’t need to be kept safe, thanks.

The vaccine is offering additional protection to those who need/want it. That’s great. It’s not selfish to not want that protection.

@bumbleymummy

I’m not relying on anyone to keep me safe. I really don’t feel like I’m in any real danger so I don’t need to be kept safe, thanks.

The vaccine is offering additional protection to those who need/want it. That’s great. It’s not selfish to not want that protection.

I don’t want the protection of the vaccine for myself. I’m low risk and couldn’t give a fuck about having covid. That’s completely missing the point as to why most low risk people are having the vaccine.

I don’t want the protection of the vaccine for myself. I’m low risk and couldn’t give a fuck about having covid. That’s completely missing the point as to why most low risk people are having the vaccine.

Yes, I am very low risk and had already had Covid by the time I got the vaccine. I didn't get it to 'keep myself safe'. I can't imagine I'm the only one.

It could go either way.

Well, you can decide to have a vaccine for something you’re not at risk of all you want. Others won’t make the same decision as you.

@bumbleymummy

Well, you can decide to have a vaccine for something you’re not at risk of all you want. Others won’t make the same decision as you.

I know they won’t and I’ve already said that’s people’s right. It is the right of other people, who will be affected by unvaccinated people, to think it’s a dick move.

If you don’t care that you’re more likely to pass it onto someone vulnerable (some of whom cannot be vaccinated) or that we may well have restrictions reintroduced because of too low a vaccination rate then that’s up to you, but please don’t shy away from the consequences of your choice. Your choice is yours to make, but you have no right shirking responsibility for the effect it could have on others.

Too low a vaccination rate in the younger, non-cv group is not going to have a huge impact on hospitalisations. Uptake of the vaccination in the at risk groups has been very high. We really shouldn’t need to reintroduce restrictions if the vaccines are doing their job and reducing the risk of serious illness in the people who were most likely to end up in hospital.

The whole ‘we have to protect those who can’t be vaccinated’ argument really doesn’t sway me. Most of the people banging on about it now would have had no problem going to work with a cold, not getting an annual flu jab and sending their children into school dosed up on Calpol because they don’t want to take a day off work. I’m not sure why COVID suddenly made them find their conscience.

OP: Why do people say those not getting vaccinated are selfish?

Loads of Mumsnetters: For these specific reasons.

OP: La la la, I'm not listening!

I remember the same happening just before the smoking ban came in. Smokers would point out that it's their business what they put in their body's and non smokers such as myself would point out that actually, it is our business since we have to breath in their dirty smoke.

The same applies to the vaccines. If it only affected you on an individual level I suspect most people wouldn't care, but we need herd immunity to be a thing to protect everyone else, especially those who cannot be vaccinated.

Yes, you have the right to decide whether to be vaccinated or not, but equally so, people also have the right to tell you whether they think that is a good idea or not. Freedom of expression and all that.

No one should be pressured into getting the vaccination, it should be your choice and yours alone. However it goes both ways, anti Vaxxers shouldn’t be shoving thier views and conspiracy theories at those who want to be vaccinated either. All I say is don’t come crying if you or your family catch it and something terrible happens to them because you didn’t have your vaccination.

A couple of questions on this one. Loads of people have said that they know people who need to be protected because medically they can’t have the jab. What conditions exactly do these people have? I’ve looked into this extensively and the only condition that exempts you from the Mrna Covid vaccines is immediate anaphylaxis to that specific jab (which in order to discover you would have to already have had one of the jabs.) And in that instance they recommend you have one of the other jabs. There ARE no medical exemptions for this. All those discussing restrictions based on vac status but favour exemptions for those who medically ‘can’t have the jab’ need to be aware that at the moment that’s nobody. And also that historically (California is a great example of this) doctors have been discriminated against and even lost their medical license for giving out ‘too many’ exemptions.

Vaccines are safe and effective for the best majority of people. But public health measures by their very nature are a blunt instrument prioritising the greatest good of the greatest number over individual cases. If we stoop to othering those who are unvaccinated, and introduce measures (either via the govt or by the backdoor, with companies mandating their own vaccine based restrictions) where does that leave people with complex medical histories whose cases aren’t cut and dry, and for whom there isn’t and probably will never be any data from clinical trials - which is the only gold standard for evaluating risk.

The phase three stage of drug trials is where the information is gathered which leads to some conditions being added to the exemption risk - if for example pregnant or breastfeeding women or those with specific autoimmune disorders are seen population wide to be more at risk of adverse events, those conditions are added to the list of approved exemptions. For now that list is vanishingly small.

It must be left up to individuals (and their doctors if they require them) to assess risk benefit on an individual basis. To call others selfish because they refuse a vaccine is myopic.

And most of the unvaccinated people are young and not cv so unlikely to end up in hospital

Friends son just caught covid - 10 day isolation and tearing for the entire family. Parents coupon home - daughter missed vital exams.

It’s not all about the individual.