Thoughts on the non-vaccinated!

[UnluckyMe]

Why have people been so critical of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated against covid 19?

I've read all sorts of comments about those, like me, who chose not to be vaccinated calling us selfish, uneducated and so on. There seems to be a massive lack of respect for what others choose to do with their body and I'm just curious as go why people feel the need to make comments about it. There are obviously many who don't and I do acknowledge that, my post is more directed to thoughts on why the other side do (feels very playground bully like to me).

The way I see it is everyone has a choice - respect that choice and move on with life rather than throwing insults at one another or dwell on something out of your own control.

I'd also like to confirm i do not own tin foil hat, expect the end of days soon or believe everyone will drop dead in 6 months / will transform into magneto from X-Men (all those coins sticking to people's arms!)

I have followed the rules down to a tee but have just chosen not to be vaccinated at present. Maybe I will change my mind, maybe I won't 🤷‍♀️ who knows.

I am genuinely curious - I read on another post "all vulnerable and sensible people have had the jab" as a comment which riled me a bit too! I like to think I'm pretty sensible but clearly this Mumsnetter thinks otherwise 😆😆

@MarianGW I am certainly not advocating for conditional medical treatment as the norm but it is already happening and developing fast. The example of having to be vaccinated is an extreme one but the point being that things we thought would be extreme only two years ago are now the norm.
We can not get away from the fact we can not meet healthcare demand because new treatments and drugs continually raise expectations of what can be treated. On a human level this is great, but the resources are finite so have to be rationed, as they are now.
At the moment there are 'bad' choices that we make that have negative implications on our ability to access healthcare. Like smoking. Not many argue that smokers should have a lung transplant if they will not stop smoking, or circulatory interventions so we have normalised that rationing healthcare to smokers is OK. Obesity isn't quite there yet, but it is getting there. Alcoholism, definitely a bad one to ration healthcare, drug use - illegal yes but prescription no. Dangerous sports, definitely not. No rationing if you fall off a cliff rock climbing. Bad driving, not yet but some moves for drunk drivers.
Vaccines, no. But moves to restrict access to pre schools, playgroups etc for unvaccinated.
As I posted, it already happens with tetanus.
And the example you give about cohercive medical interventions is slightly different in my understanding.

The point you make about Nazi Germany is so true. I was in Albania before and they had 40 years of complete totalitarian rule based on the Government telling everyone that every other country wanted to exterminate them. Everyone was so afraid they accepted anything the Government wanted to do to them.

blame the governments handling of covid

Yes its never their fault is it? I notice little Matty Hancock wasnt so fucking scared of varients that he didnt stick his toungue down his mistresses throat. He doesnt really need to be in hiding. There are enough people saying "look over there" that he doesnt need to bother.

Incidentally .................

www.hsj.co.uk/patient-safety/covid-infections-caught-in-hospital-rise-by-a-third-in-one-week/7029211.article dated the day before the big press conference on 19th December.

Im truly sorry about your niece but your anger is misplaced.

The vaccines are in trial until 2023, they can only be used under emergency conditions, that's why all these lockdowns happen.
How odd, there's not been a lockdown where I am and, while a state of emergency was temporarily declared, it has been lifted...yet I'm getting jabbed tomorrow.

Or maybe there IS a lockdown but our government and mainstream media is covering it up

[quote UnluckyMe]@sunflower095 not sure you'll see this as I can't tag for some reason, but I have to disagree.

Vaccines and medicine go through years of clinical trials and still get rejected years into research. This jab is producing adverse effects in some users. It hasn't gone through the same testing cycles so comparing it to cancer treatment and other vaccinations is not a valid point. You cannot compare something that has been in use for decades and gone through the proper trials to something that was produced in a matter of months.

The entire drive is a mass clinical trial. Data is being gathered as each day goes by with the aim to make it more effective. I'm sure the media portrayed the vaccine as a one off, then it was a booster this year and they are talking about it being a yearly injection like the flu jab. The narrative is constantly changing because they are still working on it![/quote]
All vaccines have adverse effects on some users.

Have you read how these vaccines were developed and why it was possible to produce them so fast?

Unless for a genuine medical reason I have no time for any anti-vaxxer of any type and yes I think less of them

Wheres the hate for people who still disproportionately fuck the planet with their unnecessary gas guzzling cars or those who dont pay their taxes? Can we spread the hate a bit more please?

@bellasmella

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

What authoritive independent research would you be privy to that has been overlooked by the World Health Organisation, The European Health Agencies of all member states, the Health Agencies of USA, and all other Countries, Academic Institutions, research organisations and my granny. There aren't any. Even if WHO have missed something, nothing gets past my Granny.

@P999

Wheres the hate for people who still disproportionately fuck the planet with their unnecessary gas guzzling cars or those who dont pay their taxes? Can we spread the hate a bit more please?

We other threads for that😁

I feel it's my duty as a citizen of this planet to not be a spreader of communicable diseases

You still are though. Everyone is. You could have passed on any number of viruses that ended up killing a vulnerable person somewhere along the chain..and you probably have.

I mean, getting a covid vaccine doesn't make you morally superior to those who don't. Except in your own head.

OMG, Granny was the last person you'd expect to be part of it. Though I did think all the electronic gadgets she has been setting up in the living room were a bit odd. She said it was so she could Skype Geneva. Come to think of it, she doesn't even know anyone in Geneva. And does she really need encrypted VPN for FaceTime with grandchildren?

I mean, getting a covid vaccine doesn't make you morally superior to those who don't. Except in your own head.

Yeah, I'm going to have to strongly disagree here. There are various arguments for the moral goodness of getting vaccinated. I'll dump this paper here for a start:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6267229/

@JustATypo

Because your lack of vaccination puts others at risk. So it’s not a personal choice about what you are doing or not doing to “your” body. Your choice endangers the health of others, and the livelihood of others. So I can’t see how others can’t be critical of that.

This

Its like someone choosing not to drink alcohol before driving a car v someone that does, both may still have an accident, although one has tried to prevent it, and this also may impact others

[quote ClareBlue]@MarianGW I am certainly not advocating for conditional medical treatment as the norm but it is already happening and developing fast. The example of having to be vaccinated is an extreme one but the point being that things we thought would be extreme only two years ago are now the norm.
We can not get away from the fact we can not meet healthcare demand because new treatments and drugs continually raise expectations of what can be treated. On a human level this is great, but the resources are finite so have to be rationed, as they are now.
At the moment there are 'bad' choices that we make that have negative implications on our ability to access healthcare. Like smoking. Not many argue that smokers should have a lung transplant if they will not stop smoking, or circulatory interventions so we have normalised that rationing healthcare to smokers is OK. Obesity isn't quite there yet, but it is getting there. Alcoholism, definitely a bad one to ration healthcare, drug use - illegal yes but prescription no. Dangerous sports, definitely not. No rationing if you fall off a cliff rock climbing. Bad driving, not yet but some moves for drunk drivers.
Vaccines, no. But moves to restrict access to pre schools, playgroups etc for unvaccinated.
As I posted, it already happens with tetanus.
And the example you give about cohercive medical interventions is slightly different in my understanding.

The point you make about Nazi Germany is so true. I was in Albania before and they had 40 years of complete totalitarian rule based on the Government telling everyone that every other country wanted to exterminate them. Everyone was so afraid they accepted anything the Government wanted to do to them.[/quote]
Conditional medical treatment will ultimately undermine the principles of the NHS. There will be few people who don't have some 'vice'. Alienating people by restricting treatment will make them question what they are paying for. Those who can afford it will turn to private medical care where the only judgment is 'can you pay'? They will also question why they should pay taxes for a service which they aren't receiving. There are politicians who will exploit that and it won't end well for the NHS which in any event needs to clean up its own act. There is chronic waste & mismanagement within the NHS - and precious little accountability.

I would genuinely like someone to explain to me their reasons for not having the vaccine? (Other than the obvious of individuals who may not be able to for medical reasons).

I fully respect the whole it is “your body and your choice” narrative in life in general - but seriously what harm does having the jab do?

I had quite awful side effects after my first dose (Oxford) but it did not bother me in the slightest as I knew I was doing it to (hopefully) protect others. After my second dose I had no side effects whatsoever. But a few hours/days of discomfort for the hope of potentially saving lives costs absolutely nothing and is completely worth it to me. (But perhaps because I was raised to treat others the way I wish to be treated makes me abnormal 🤷‍♀️)

I am a very open minded person and try to respect others beliefs and decisions regardless of whether or not I agree with them but I am afraid no one will ever convince me of a good enough reason not to do their part to protect others. In my opinion there is absolutely no excuse, it is just downright selfish and pathetic.

I have never had the greatest opinion of society but this pandemic has truly proven to me just how selfish some individuals can be and makes me want to become a hermit, living in a cabin in the middle of nowhere even more!

@AlfiesMama85

I would genuinely like someone to explain to me their reasons for not having the vaccine? (Other than the obvious of individuals who may not be able to for medical reasons).

I fully respect the whole it is “your body and your choice” narrative in life in general - but seriously what harm does having the jab do?

I had quite awful side effects after my first dose (Oxford) but it did not bother me in the slightest as I knew I was doing it to (hopefully) protect others. After my second dose I had no side effects whatsoever. But a few hours/days of discomfort for the hope of potentially saving lives costs absolutely nothing and is completely worth it to me. (But perhaps because I was raised to treat others the way I wish to be treated makes me abnormal 🤷‍♀️)

I am a very open minded person and try to respect others beliefs and decisions regardless of whether or not I agree with them but I am afraid no one will ever convince me of a good enough reason not to do their part to protect others. In my opinion there is absolutely no excuse, it is just downright selfish and pathetic.

I have never had the greatest opinion of society but this pandemic has truly proven to me just how selfish some individuals can be and makes me want to become a hermit, living in a cabin in the middle of nowhere even more!

I am not having the vaccine because the whole process would be very detrimental to my mental health, along with being dangerous to anyone approaching me with a needle..

Well I am ECV and sensible and not had the vaccine, no medical professional can inform me of the long term side effects from taking this vaccine, therefore they have not my informed consent to inject me.

I have been called all sorts from declining it by my family until recently when they finally seen what I was telling them for this past year.

I have been called all sorts from declining it by my family until recently when they finally seen what I was telling them for this past year.
Well come on, enlighten us.

I wouldn't comment on someone choosing not to have the vaccine and I dont agree that vaccines should be mandatory but do I judge people for choosing not to have unless they have been told they cant by a medic? yeah a bit, We've been in a pandemic for 18 months, reaching herd immunity with a vaccine is the only way of living with the virus longer term.

iv had the vaccine ,but only because when i went on the day they were offering pffzier . if they had been giving astra zeneca i would have walked away and remained unvaccinated , just because iv had it i dont think or feel any less of people who havent , i respect their choice and im happy to be near them , have them in my home , work closely with them , covid fear had turned a lot of people into hysterical idiots and thats really all to be said

First what happened what a loud group of people resisted measures to reduce the spread of Covid-19. They didn't pay attention to social distancing, they didn't take seriously mask requirements or how to make them effective, and they generally treated anything that was not a silver bullet like it didn't matter. So many people were so cavalier, and it created a lot of anxiety and stress because it communicated a lack of caring for anyone else.

Those behaviors put other people at risk, and generally felt like a slap in the face to people who have sacrificed a lot throughout this pandemic, which is pretty much everyone, but especially health care workers. I realize that many people have felt desperate and out of control, but that sense of entitlement is frankly obnoxious when so many people have suffered and given up so much, and when so many people have died.

So then we hear about these same people who don't want to comply with measures to protect other people, then ALSO don't want to be vaccinated... it's very frustrating! We ALL want this to be over.

I'm not saying that this is you. Maybe you are very respectful about making sure that you aren't endangering other people in your interactions. However, a whole bunch of people have been, frankly, real assholes about it. They've acted like they don't care about anyone but themselves, and it's heart-breaking and creates great amounts of stress and anxiety.

You might be doing everything right, but it's become very difficult to trust other people. People who don't want to get the vaccine are under the onus to take responsibility for that decision, by taking greater care to protect other people. Unfortunately, those efforts aren't seen, almost by definition. So people who quietly don't have the vaccine and are staying isolated aren't appreciated for their efforts. Instead, what IS seen are the people who flagrantly disregard the well being of others.

That's why people get so pissed off. We're all tired.

The reason people are annoyed OP is because your choice affects us all.

If you can't understand that and don't care that you may be spreading the virus and ultimately putting lives in danger, then there's no point having a conversation with you about this.

But I will judge you. 🤷‍♀️

It is up to everyone to make up their own mind about the vaccine, but I'm another who believes it is selfish not to have it. There are many who simply can't have it for various reasons, and they are usually the most vulnerable. Enough others need to have the vaccine to protect them, and I have little time for those who refuse vaccines for themselves or their children but rely on others having vaccines to protect them.

@AlfiesMama85

I would genuinely like someone to explain to me their reasons for not having the vaccine? (Other than the obvious of individuals who may not be able to for medical reasons).

I fully respect the whole it is “your body and your choice” narrative in life in general - but seriously what harm does having the jab do?

I had quite awful side effects after my first dose (Oxford) but it did not bother me in the slightest as I knew I was doing it to (hopefully) protect others. After my second dose I had no side effects whatsoever. But a few hours/days of discomfort for the hope of potentially saving lives costs absolutely nothing and is completely worth it to me. (But perhaps because I was raised to treat others the way I wish to be treated makes me abnormal 🤷‍♀️)

I am a very open minded person and try to respect others beliefs and decisions regardless of whether or not I agree with them but I am afraid no one will ever convince me of a good enough reason not to do their part to protect others. In my opinion there is absolutely no excuse, it is just downright selfish and pathetic.

I have never had the greatest opinion of society but this pandemic has truly proven to me just how selfish some individuals can be and makes me want to become a hermit, living in a cabin in the middle of nowhere even more!

i dont regard someone that does not want to have the vaccine as selfish and pathetic , its your opinions of them that are pathtic , given the number of deaths that iv read about due to astra zeneca i wouldnt blame anyone for not wanting to be vaccinated , given your feelings you might be best off living as a hermit in the middle of nowhere , at least that way you wont encounter any of the dreaded unvaccinated god forbid