Lisa Shaw death possibly connected to the vaccine

[Notagoodtime]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-57267169

This is so very sad

@Dorothy1940

My heart goes out to this poor woman RIP. She sounds like a good person who has done her bit for society and very sadly paid a terrible price but that price is still better than long covid and infecting others. We need to remember that she has probably saved several lives by her sacrifice so her death is not in vain.

If only others were as compassionate to the vulnerable as this lovely lady and there were no anti vaxxers we would be out of this mess! I spoke with my grand daughter about her taking the vaccine and she has told me if her life lost saves several other lives who cant take the vaccine it is worthwhile. I shall drive her to the vaccine appointment myself as she is nervous about the vaccine but beautiful people like this lady and my grand daughter put the selfish people who wont take the vaccine to shame

And they call people who don’t want the vaccine crazy?! This post is absolutely frightening. You’ve lost it.

@Dustyboots

Plenty of people had Covid and only knew because they had a test and it came up positive. No symptoms at all.

Yes. This seems to have been mysteriously forgotten. It used to be talked about a lot. Are there no mild or asymptomatic cases anymore?

Ads on the radio still come out with "1 in 3 people have no symptoms"... so we are all super spreaders basically.

I thought @Dorothy1940 was making a joke, albeit a sick one.

All the medical advice I can find online which predates the pandemic suggests that natural immunity gives you better, more long lasting protection - and more adaptable to different variants - than a vacinne. I'm not a scientist but this makes sense to me.

This will vary from one infectious disease to another. With covid, the vaccine produces stronger immunity than natural immunity.

[[https://www.abc10.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/vaccine/you-should-get-vaccinated-even-if-youve-had-covid-heres-why/289-3f034823-a2a2-453a-9c6b-8e6fa74e4c24 You should get vaccinated, even if you've had COVID - Here's why
The mRNA technology in the two-dose vaccines gives us better, more consistent protection than the virus does.]]

The level of anecdata on this thread is a bit overwhelming.

If you catch covid, you could end up in hospital with complications, even blood clots. Lots of people choose not to have the vaccine, we stay in this pandemic and carry on with lockdowns.

If you have the vaccine, you could end up in hospital with complications, such as blood clots.

Hmm. Which do I go for?

so we are all super spreaders basically. and those who have been vaccinated...

And my 10 year old had covid, 40 degree fever, horrible cough for a week. Then inflammatory system problems causing him pain for a year that his consultant says was linked to the original covid infection. Everyone’s different. That’s exactly why this virus is such a bugger.

@Everdreamer1990 - if you don't feel comfortable getting the vaccine, don't get it. You already have antibodies. You don't need it.

This is what is so upsetting - people feeling they can't make a choice about what they feel is best for them because of other people's responses. What world are we living in where it's now acceptable to bully people into getting medical treatment they don't want?

Your body, your choice. I've told everyone at work I'm not getting it and I've had raised eyebrows, but I don't care. Too many people swallow exactly what they're told by authority figures. The same authority figures who are so wise they got us into this mess in the first place....

FFS. 30+ million people have been vaccinated in the last few months. A small minority of those will die suddenly, including, sadly, an tiny proportion well before their time. This happens whether there is an ongoing vaccine programme or not. It's just life and the law of averages.

It's almost inevitable that anti-vax nutjobs will draw a connection but unless they can show that these sudden deaths have suddenly become statistically more likely, or that there is some other evidence of causation, there's nothing to see here.

@daytimeknitter

My MIL died two weeks ago with a heart attack after a clot on her lung. Previously healthy. My DD's FIL died yesterday of a heart attack. Previously healthy. My BF's DF seriously ill in hospital with heart problems. Previously elderly but healthy. All recently vaccinated. This is too much of a coincidence.

I’m so sorry to hear of your losses

My DM had a heart attack 12 hours after her AZ. She is 62 and otherwise in good health. It’s scary.

In Australia the AstraZeneca vaccine will not be offered to those under 50 because of known risks of blood clotting leading to deaths. Citizens under 50 will be offered the Pfizer vaccine instead.

The risks of clotting with AZ have been widely reported here

[quote EnidSpyton]@Everdreamer1990 - if you don't feel comfortable getting the vaccine, don't get it. You already have antibodies. You don't need it.

This is what is so upsetting - people feeling they can't make a choice about what they feel is best for them because of other people's responses. What world are we living in where it's now acceptable to bully people into getting medical treatment they don't want?

Your body, your choice. I've told everyone at work I'm not getting it and I've had raised eyebrows, but I don't care. Too many people swallow exactly what they're told by authority figures. The same authority figures who are so wise they got us into this mess in the first place....[/quote]
You are free to do whatever you like. As you say, your body, your rules.

But when those choices have a material effect on other people, you can't complain when you are judged for them. That's their right, too. In a civilised society, we all have a degree of responsibility to each other.

@EnidSpyton

As time goes on, more and more cases of severe side effects are being reported. I know more people who have been severely ill after the vaccine than I do people who have even had coronavirus in the first place.

I'm not an 'anti-vaxxer', but I am very concerned by the heavy-handed, biased approach taken by the government when it comes to essentially forcing this vaccine on the entire adult population. The message is constantly to insist that it is safe, that is has been well tested, that we all need to do this to ensure we're 'doing our bit' etc - and in the process, reports of severe side effects are being brushed under the carpet or their significance downplayed to ensure maximum uptake. However, the yellow card scheme used to report side effects is very underused. We do not have an accurate picture of the severity or scale of side effects, and so we as a population are not really being given an informed choice, despite being told we are.

I don't believe these blood clots are as rare as they're making them out to be.
I also don't believe this vaccine is as safe as they claim it to be.

Covid is not deadly for the vast majority of people who catch it. Why then should we essentially be coerced (because we are being coerced, by the constant messaging, and the belittling, sneering attitude of others who consider anyone who is unsure about the vaccine to be a nutjob conspiracy theorist) into taking a vaccine to protect us from a disease that for most of us poses little to no real threat? It suits the government to roll the vaccine out like this because it makes financial sense to do so. But what will the longterm effects of these untested vaccines be? And how many people will die of the side effects? We simply don't know. The data doesn't exist. It's erroneous to keep insisting the vaccines are safe, because we don't definitively know that's true. For some people, as with Lisa Shaw, the vaccine is deadly. A needless life lost to a disease that wouldn't have killed her in the first place. We need to be talking more about this, and we need to have more nuance to the vaccine conversation. It's not as cut and dried as people are making out. I'm 35. I'm slim, fit and healthy. My chances of dying of coronavirus are miniscule. There's over a year's worth of data to back that up. What are my chances of dying of the vaccine? I have no idea. There's no equivalent data to help me weigh up my options here. So why should I take the risk? At the moment, I feel like I can't even ask that question without being told I'm a hysterical conspiracy theorist. To me, though, that's a common sense question. But such is the cult of the vaccine that any questioning of its safety is tantamount to treason. And that is very troubling.

I agree with you 100% - such a well written comment!

The lack of intellect and basic understanding on display here is fucking scary.

@thedancingbear

But my choice not to have a vaccine doesn't have a material effect on anyone else.

Having the vaccine doesn't stop you from transmitting coronavirus.

It might stop me from becoming seriously ill - but my chances of becoming seriously ill were already very low. So I was never going to be taking a hospital bed from anyone else anyway. Not that I would feel bad about doing so - I've been a higher rate taxpayer for the past ten years. Why shouldn't I have a right to a hospital bed if I need one?

So this argument about doing it for the greater good just doesn't follow.

What you really mean is that governments have banded together to agree that only vaccinated people are going to be allowed to do certain things, and that's a different scenario altogether. By getting the vaccine, I'm not saving anyone else from dying. What I'm doing is allowing the government to prove to other governments that this country is 'covid safe' so the economy can open up again. There are some things I would willingly sacrifice my life for, but capitalism ain't one of 'em.

@somgreatapollo

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9624839/Facebook-shows-true-ugly-colours-Wuhan-censorship.html People can defend this vaccine all they like. What we know right now is this. The world's largest tech giant Facebook has now been exposed for censoring information about the origins of this virus. We know FB did this to suck up to the Chinese. It was about money. It is always about money. What else is being hidden? People mentioning the Wuhab lab links were last year called conspiracy theorists. Well it looks like that may have been right all along. Similar 'theories' have been in the domain re vaccines for the past year. How many of them have some truth in them? And how much is big pharma paying to keep negative news about the vaccines out of the media? If people think this sounds crazy just look at the FB example above. Follow the money, always. I don't believe any of the bizarre stuff about gates, brain implants and what not. I am not sure many people do in all honesty. But I do believe if there were any issues with this vaccine we would be the last people to know about them.

I've read plenty in the news about the vaccines, not sure where you're looking?

I think it would be better to focus the vaccines on the over 50s and vunerable groups. When all the people in those groups that want to be vaccinated are, we could then give the vaccines to other countries to help their older people.

Younger people are not at risk of Covid unless they have preexisting health conditions.

Do people still supporting the vaccine data still trust the numbers we are hearing?

The amount of people I know who don’t trust the Government anything else (possibly rightly so if any of what Cummings said is true ) who have an implicit faith in this vaccine scares me .

@thedancingbear

The lack of intellect and basic understanding on display here is fucking scary.

Yes it is, isn't it.

Initially they tried to fob us off on the blood clot vaccine link by saying it was a law of averages, as you say in your earlier post.

Now it's becoming increasingly clear that was a lie.

To question the safety of the vaccine when there is limited statistical evidence to prove the claims that it's safe is not demonstrating lack of intellect and basic understanding. It's not questioning that demonstrates that, I'm afraid.

Did Matt Hancock make the vaccine in his shed? Is that the next scandal?

EnidSpyton
As time goes on, more and more cases of severe side effects are being reported. I know more people who have been severely ill after the vaccine than I do people who have even had coronavirus in the first place.

I'm not an 'anti-vaxxer', but I am very concerned by the heavy-handed, biased approach taken by the government when it comes to essentially forcing this vaccine on the entire adult population. The message is constantly to insist that it is safe, that is has been well tested, that we all need to do this to ensure we're 'doing our bit' etc - and in the process, reports of severe side effects are being brushed under the carpet or their significance downplayed to ensure maximum uptake. However, the yellow card scheme used to report side effects is very underused. We do not have an accurate picture of the severity or scale of side effects, and so we as a population are not really being given an informed choice, despite being told we are.

I don't believe these blood clots are as rare as they're making them out to be.
I also don't believe this vaccine is as safe as they claim it to be.

Covid is not deadly for the vast majority of people who catch it. Why then should we essentially be coerced (because we are being coerced, by the constant messaging, and the belittling, sneering attitude of others who consider anyone who is unsure about the vaccine to be a nutjob conspiracy theorist) into taking a vaccine to protect us from a disease that for most of us poses little to no real threat? It suits the government to roll the vaccine out like this because it makes financial sense to do so. But what will the longterm effects of these untested vaccines be? And how many people will die of the side effects? We simply don't know. The data doesn't exist. It's erroneous to keep insisting the vaccines are safe, because we don't definitively know that's true. For some people, as with Lisa Shaw, the vaccine is deadly. A needless life lost to a disease that wouldn't have killed her in the first place. We need to be talking more about this, and we need to have more nuance to the vaccine conversation. It's not as cut and dried as people are making out. I'm 35. I'm slim, fit and healthy. My chances of dying of coronavirus are miniscule. There's over a year's worth of data to back that up. What are my chances of dying of the vaccine? I have no idea. There's no equivalent data to help me weigh up my options here. So why should I take the risk? At the moment, I feel like I can't even ask that question without being told I'm a hysterical conspiracy theorist. To me, though, that's a common sense question. But such is the cult of the vaccine that any questioning of its safety is tantamount to treason. And that is very troubling.

I echo everything you said. This is the most reasoned post I’ve read on MN.
I have had the first vaccine. There isn’t the slightest chance I will take a second vaccine. I dread finding out what the long term effects of AZ will be. It will be a huge scandal.

Thank you florafauna27. Our family have had an awful time and your kindness is appreciated xx

I have been laughed at, mocked and ridiculed for questioning clever scientists (who apparently are one amorphous mass).

It seems fucking obvious to me that a brand new vaccine just might have side effects that don’t show up in a trial of 40,000 people

But I’m thick, selfish and dumb. What do I know

This clotting issue - which seems to have long standing effects even if you survive it - is devastating. Utterly devastating.

I wish your DM a good recovery