Lisa Shaw death possibly connected to the vaccine

[Notagoodtime]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-57267169

This is so very sad

The phase 3 trials are pretty much being done on the entire population right now . What could possibly go wrong?

0/10

@EnidSpyton

As time goes on, more and more cases of severe side effects are being reported. I know more people who have been severely ill after the vaccine than I do people who have even had coronavirus in the first place.

I'm not an 'anti-vaxxer', but I am very concerned by the heavy-handed, biased approach taken by the government when it comes to essentially forcing this vaccine on the entire adult population. The message is constantly to insist that it is safe, that is has been well tested, that we all need to do this to ensure we're 'doing our bit' etc - and in the process, reports of severe side effects are being brushed under the carpet or their significance downplayed to ensure maximum uptake. However, the yellow card scheme used to report side effects is very underused. We do not have an accurate picture of the severity or scale of side effects, and so we as a population are not really being given an informed choice, despite being told we are.

I don't believe these blood clots are as rare as they're making them out to be.
I also don't believe this vaccine is as safe as they claim it to be.

Covid is not deadly for the vast majority of people who catch it. Why then should we essentially be coerced (because we are being coerced, by the constant messaging, and the belittling, sneering attitude of others who consider anyone who is unsure about the vaccine to be a nutjob conspiracy theorist) into taking a vaccine to protect us from a disease that for most of us poses little to no real threat? It suits the government to roll the vaccine out like this because it makes financial sense to do so. But what will the longterm effects of these untested vaccines be? And how many people will die of the side effects? We simply don't know. The data doesn't exist. It's erroneous to keep insisting the vaccines are safe, because we don't definitively know that's true. For some people, as with Lisa Shaw, the vaccine is deadly. A needless life lost to a disease that wouldn't have killed her in the first place. We need to be talking more about this, and we need to have more nuance to the vaccine conversation. It's not as cut and dried as people are making out. I'm 35. I'm slim, fit and healthy. My chances of dying of coronavirus are miniscule. There's over a year's worth of data to back that up. What are my chances of dying of the vaccine? I have no idea. There's no equivalent data to help me weigh up my options here. So why should I take the risk? At the moment, I feel like I can't even ask that question without being told I'm a hysterical conspiracy theorist. To me, though, that's a common sense question. But such is the cult of the vaccine that any questioning of its safety is tantamount to treason. And that is very troubling.

Totally agree @EnidSpyton 👏

@EnidSpyton

As time goes on, more and more cases of severe side effects are being reported. I know more people who have been severely ill after the vaccine than I do people who have even had coronavirus in the first place.

I'm not an 'anti-vaxxer', but I am very concerned by the heavy-handed, biased approach taken by the government when it comes to essentially forcing this vaccine on the entire adult population. The message is constantly to insist that it is safe, that is has been well tested, that we all need to do this to ensure we're 'doing our bit' etc - and in the process, reports of severe side effects are being brushed under the carpet or their significance downplayed to ensure maximum uptake. However, the yellow card scheme used to report side effects is very underused. We do not have an accurate picture of the severity or scale of side effects, and so we as a population are not really being given an informed choice, despite being told we are.

I don't believe these blood clots are as rare as they're making them out to be.
I also don't believe this vaccine is as safe as they claim it to be.

Covid is not deadly for the vast majority of people who catch it. Why then should we essentially be coerced (because we are being coerced, by the constant messaging, and the belittling, sneering attitude of others who consider anyone who is unsure about the vaccine to be a nutjob conspiracy theorist) into taking a vaccine to protect us from a disease that for most of us poses little to no real threat? It suits the government to roll the vaccine out like this because it makes financial sense to do so. But what will the longterm effects of these untested vaccines be? And how many people will die of the side effects? We simply don't know. The data doesn't exist. It's erroneous to keep insisting the vaccines are safe, because we don't definitively know that's true. For some people, as with Lisa Shaw, the vaccine is deadly. A needless life lost to a disease that wouldn't have killed her in the first place. We need to be talking more about this, and we need to have more nuance to the vaccine conversation. It's not as cut and dried as people are making out. I'm 35. I'm slim, fit and healthy. My chances of dying of coronavirus are miniscule. There's over a year's worth of data to back that up. What are my chances of dying of the vaccine? I have no idea. There's no equivalent data to help me weigh up my options here. So why should I take the risk? At the moment, I feel like I can't even ask that question without being told I'm a hysterical conspiracy theorist. To me, though, that's a common sense question. But such is the cult of the vaccine that any questioning of its safety is tantamount to treason. And that is very troubling.

@EnidSpyton I completely agree. I understand why it’s being rolled out so widely as the benefits to society are potentially huge but I too feel increasingly concerned by some of the harm the vaccinations are causing too. I feel that as a country we are relying far too heavily on the vaccinations as a way out of this when there are so many other measures that aren’t being properly implemented. There are many people where the risks of the vaccination are far out weighed by the risks of covid but it concerns me that we are accepting that a number of young healthy people will loose their lives for the greater good. I was really excited to get my first dose of AZ but I feel increasingly concerned about getting the second. I’m in my 30s and fairly healthy and I’m worried about the known risks of the clots the incidence of which per million is increasing week upon week yet there is so much criticism of those of us who wrote pro vax enough to get the first dose but are concerned that the risks of the second outweigh the benefits. I wish there had been more emphasis upon suppression through better boarder controls, track and trace, supported isolation, better mitigation in schools etc to drive numbers right down then maybe vaccinating the more vulnerable members of society may have been enough but instead we’ve been pinning all our hopes on a vaccination while importing new variants that jeopardise the vaccination programme. I feel like nothing has been learnt.

@EnidSpyton

As time goes on, more and more cases of severe side effects are being reported. I know more people who have been severely ill after the vaccine than I do people who have even had coronavirus in the first place.

I'm not an 'anti-vaxxer', but I am very concerned by the heavy-handed, biased approach taken by the government when it comes to essentially forcing this vaccine on the entire adult population. The message is constantly to insist that it is safe, that is has been well tested, that we all need to do this to ensure we're 'doing our bit' etc - and in the process, reports of severe side effects are being brushed under the carpet or their significance downplayed to ensure maximum uptake. However, the yellow card scheme used to report side effects is very underused. We do not have an accurate picture of the severity or scale of side effects, and so we as a population are not really being given an informed choice, despite being told we are.

I don't believe these blood clots are as rare as they're making them out to be.
I also don't believe this vaccine is as safe as they claim it to be.

Covid is not deadly for the vast majority of people who catch it. Why then should we essentially be coerced (because we are being coerced, by the constant messaging, and the belittling, sneering attitude of others who consider anyone who is unsure about the vaccine to be a nutjob conspiracy theorist) into taking a vaccine to protect us from a disease that for most of us poses little to no real threat? It suits the government to roll the vaccine out like this because it makes financial sense to do so. But what will the longterm effects of these untested vaccines be? And how many people will die of the side effects? We simply don't know. The data doesn't exist. It's erroneous to keep insisting the vaccines are safe, because we don't definitively know that's true. For some people, as with Lisa Shaw, the vaccine is deadly. A needless life lost to a disease that wouldn't have killed her in the first place. We need to be talking more about this, and we need to have more nuance to the vaccine conversation. It's not as cut and dried as people are making out. I'm 35. I'm slim, fit and healthy. My chances of dying of coronavirus are miniscule. There's over a year's worth of data to back that up. What are my chances of dying of the vaccine? I have no idea. There's no equivalent data to help me weigh up my options here. So why should I take the risk? At the moment, I feel like I can't even ask that question without being told I'm a hysterical conspiracy theorist. To me, though, that's a common sense question. But such is the cult of the vaccine that any questioning of its safety is tantamount to treason. And that is very troubling.

This is a great post. Hesitancy doesn't make you a crazed conspiracy theorist. But on this site and elsewhere that's how it's seen. Like the poor poster the other day who refused the AZ vaccine offered as a leftover from a GP friend and was totally pulled apart for it.

@Dorothy1940

My heart goes out to this poor woman RIP. She sounds like a good person who has done her bit for society and very sadly paid a terrible price but that price is still better than long covid and infecting others. We need to remember that she has probably saved several lives by her sacrifice so her death is not in vain.

If only others were as compassionate to the vulnerable as this lovely lady and there were no anti vaxxers we would be out of this mess! I spoke with my grand daughter about her taking the vaccine and she has told me if her life lost saves several other lives who cant take the vaccine it is worthwhile. I shall drive her to the vaccine appointment myself as she is nervous about the vaccine but beautiful people like this lady and my grand daughter put the selfish people who wont take the vaccine to shame

ODFOD

@Dorothy1940

My heart goes out to this poor woman RIP. She sounds like a good person who has done her bit for society and very sadly paid a terrible price but that price is still better than long covid and infecting others. We need to remember that she has probably saved several lives by her sacrifice so her death is not in vain.

If only others were as compassionate to the vulnerable as this lovely lady and there were no anti vaxxers we would be out of this mess! I spoke with my grand daughter about her taking the vaccine and she has told me if her life lost saves several other lives who cant take the vaccine it is worthwhile. I shall drive her to the vaccine appointment myself as she is nervous about the vaccine but beautiful people like this lady and my grand daughter put the selfish people who wont take the vaccine to shame

Bloody hell, the lady died from a blood clot. She is not a "sacrifice", and her death did not mean lives were saved.

So far, in my little world we have my parents neighbours daughter in law who has suffered a clot in her brain, my dh’s cousin had a clot in his leg, and his uncle had a stroke. DH works in a job where he regularly chats to the general public and yesterday got chatting to a man in his 50’s who said he has been in exceptional health all his life until a few weeks ago, he was found to have a clot in his leg. These all occurred a few days to a few weeks post the AZ vaccine. To much of a coincidence for my liking and obviously not as rare as they are telling us.

@ImaHogg

So far, in my little world we have my parents neighbours daughter in law who has suffered a clot in her brain, my dh’s cousin had a clot in his leg, and his uncle had a stroke. DH works in a job where he regularly chats to the general public and yesterday got chatting to a man in his 50’s who said he has been in exceptional health all his life until a few weeks ago, he was found to have a clot in his leg. These all occurred a few days to a few weeks post the AZ vaccine. To much of a coincidence for my liking and obviously not as rare as they are telling us.

You do know how statistics works don't you?

As your post indicates you don't.

My MIL died two weeks ago with a heart attack after a clot on her lung. Previously healthy. My DD's FIL died yesterday of a heart attack. Previously healthy. My BF's DF seriously ill in hospital with heart problems. Previously elderly but healthy. All recently vaccinated. This is too much of a coincidence.

@Dorothy1940

My heart goes out to this poor woman RIP. She sounds like a good person who has done her bit for society and very sadly paid a terrible price but that price is still better than long covid and infecting others. We need to remember that she has probably saved several lives by her sacrifice so her death is not in vain.

If only others were as compassionate to the vulnerable as this lovely lady and there were no anti vaxxers we would be out of this mess! I spoke with my grand daughter about her taking the vaccine and she has told me if her life lost saves several other lives who cant take the vaccine it is worthwhile. I shall drive her to the vaccine appointment myself as she is nervous about the vaccine but beautiful people like this lady and my grand daughter put the selfish people who wont take the vaccine to shame

Lisa Shaw’s death is terribly sad, but I really don’t think it can be described as a sacrifice that’s saved the lives of others.

The big problem with the vacinne for me is the use on healthy people. All the medical advice I can find online which predates the pandemic suggests that natural immunity gives you better, more long lasting protection - and more adaptable to different variants - than a vacinne. I'm not a scientist but this makes sense to me. If more people have a vacinne and less have natural immunity then this could cause more problems than it solves as we as a nation become less resistant to flu type viruses and more dependent on vacinnations. Those calling those sceptical of the vacinne selfish might actually be the ones doing more harm to the general population. The flu vacinne hasn't seemed to have reduced at all the numbers dying from flu. Why should we assume the covid vacinne will be any better. I have stated I'm not a scientist so I accept I don't know but I don't think I can be blamed for being very sceptical of the official narrative which keeps changing and is largely funded and pushed by big tech and pharmaceutical companies who have hardly proved themselves trustworthy in the past.

"Covid is not deadly for the vast majority of people who catch it. Why then should we essentially be coerced (because we are being coerced, by the constant messaging, and the belittling, sneering attitude of others who consider anyone who is unsure about the vaccine to be a nutjob conspiracy theorist) into taking a vaccine to protect us from a disease that for most of us poses little to no real threat?"

It poses a huge threat to me because it has more or less ruined my life. I spend 23 hours a day in the same place. I cannot travel or mix in a group unless it's outside. There were times when I couldn't see people at all. The threat is the threat to our lifestyles and mental health caused by what we have to do to reduce Covid deaths.
I want this to end asap and I don't know of a better way than the vaccine.

@NearlyAlwaysInsane
How it was made so quickly:
The Oxford vaccine has been through each of those stages, including 30,000 volunteers in the phase three trial, and the team has as much data as any other vaccine trial.
What hasn't happened is years of hanging around in between each phase.
"The process is long, not because it needs to be and not because it's safe, but because of the real world."
Dr Mark Toshner, who has been involved in the trials at sites in Cambridge, said the idea that it took 10 years to trial a vaccine was misleading.
He told the BBC: "Most of the time, it's a lot of nothing."
He describes it as a process of writing grant applications, having them rejected, writing them again, getting approval to do the trial, negotiating with manufacturers, and trying to recruit enough people to take part. It can take years to get from one phase to the next.
"The process is long, not because it needs to be and not because it's safe, but because of the real world," Dr Toshner said.
Safety has not been sacrificed. Instead the unparalleled scientific push to make the trials happen, the droves of people willing to take part, and of course the money blew many of the usual hold-ups aside.
www.bbc.com/news/health-55041371

This is also a useful read.

www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines-idUSL1N2M70MW

In the UK there have been (iirc, but feel free to fact check me) 58 deaths to 33 million vaccines. Every death is tragic and it’s horrible that any have happened, under any circumstances. But the speed of the rollout (33 million) does mean that the tragic side effects also seem accelerated. You’d see fewer negative side effects with, say, the chicken pox vaccination as there a much much fewer than 33 million chicken pox vaccinations in the uk in one year. Even the flu vaccination rates are lower - although they still don’t escape their share of worry about side effects. Reuters article here looks at the facts behind reports of adverse reaction to the flu vaccination.

www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-flu-idUSKBN29I30P

I can understand why people are unwilling to take a new “unknown” vaccine, and if they don’t want it, that’s absolutely their choice. But I hope that understand the process Neha is the vaccine will help some people feel reassured.

@bigvig

If more people have a vacinne and less have natural immunity then this could cause more problems than it solves as we as a nation become less resistant to flu type viruses and more dependent on vacinnations.

This is not true

Vaccination doesn't lead to reduced immunity to other viruses (it only gives you immunity to pathogen you were inoculated against and doesn't influence the non specific immune response). There is also no evidence that you have a weaker response from natural rather than vaccination based immunity.

By all means don't have the vaccine if you don't feel comfortable but I wish posters wouldn't justify it with things that simply aren't true

*the process behind the vaccine.

Yep, have decided now that I am not getting the vaccine. I was on the fence but I am not happy being experimented on. I have no idea why so many people are blindly accepting that it’s safe when it’s so new and there are constant reports of side effects.

All the medical advice I can find online which predates the pandemic suggests that natural immunity gives you better, more long lasting protection - and more adaptable to different variants - than a vacinne.

Even if we assume this is true, the flip side is that you’re more likely to die or have serious side effects from actual covid than from the vaccine.

@bigvig

The big problem with the vacinne for me is the use on healthy people. All the medical advice I can find online which predates the pandemic suggests that natural immunity gives you better, more long lasting protection - and more adaptable to different variants - than a vacinne. I'm not a scientist but this makes sense to me. If more people have a vacinne and less have natural immunity then this could cause more problems than it solves as we as a nation become less resistant to flu type viruses and more dependent on vacinnations. Those calling those sceptical of the vacinne selfish might actually be the ones doing more harm to the general population. The flu vacinne hasn't seemed to have reduced at all the numbers dying from flu. Why should we assume the covid vacinne will be any better. I have stated I'm not a scientist so I accept I don't know but I don't think I can be blamed for being very sceptical of the official narrative which keeps changing and is largely funded and pushed by big tech and pharmaceutical companies who have hardly proved themselves trustworthy in the past.

What is natural immunity versus the protection a vaccine gives you? I don't understand the point you're making. Do you know how a vaccine works? Vaccines trigger an immune response in your body just like it would if you got the virus and your body had to fight it off.

Also, most vaccines even outwith covid vaccines are given to healthy people. I've never been given a vaccine when sick. So where is all this medical evidence that shows no vaccines are better than vaccines?

The big problem with the vacinne for me is the use on healthy people

All vaccines are used on healthy people.

It's no wonder people are refusing to have this jabs. People are trying to keep themselves safe from the virus then the possibility of getting a clot from vaccine is a risk. It might only be a small risk but still a risk the same.
The choices are have the jab might get a blood clot don't get the jab might get covid and covid causes blood clots according to the nurse who did mine on Sunday.
Plus the age for the astrazeneca vaccine should be 50 and over. Not under 40s

Sal

My heart goes out to this poor woman RIP. She sounds like a good person who has done her bit for society and very sadly paid a terrible price but that price is still better than long covid and infecting others. We need to remember that she has probably saved several lives by her sacrifice so her death is not in vain.

What utter tosh.

The truth of the matter is that Lisa Shaw was given a vaccine that most other countries deem unsafe for a 42 year-old woman.

@Dorothy1940 What a ridiculous post. Im sure she wouldnt feel the sacrifice was worth it and im sure her poor family dont think so either. Try thinking before making stupid and frankly insulting statements in the future.