Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Lisa Shaw death possibly connected to the vaccine

291 replies

Notagoodtime · 27/05/2021 17:50

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-57267169

This is so very sad

OP posts:
Zeev · 27/05/2021 22:28

In my country AZ is only given to people aged 65+. That seems like a reasonable precaution to me.

Moondust001 · 27/05/2021 22:28

I don't believe these blood clots are as rare as they're making them out to be. I also don't believe this vaccine is as safe as they claim it to be.

I don't believe the moon isn't made of cheese. But I won't be posting a link to prove that. Will you be proving one to back up your claims?

If this death was a result of an exceptionally rare side-effect of the vaccine, then that is tragic. All the deaths from Covid are also tragic. Which would you prefer - because unfortunately, where we are at the moment, it is a choice of one or the other. The extreme side effects of the vaccines, even where proven, are significantly fewer than the side effects of the virus.

Babyroobs · 27/05/2021 22:29

I had bad headaches for about four weeks after having my first jab. Four days after the first jab I also experienced a very scary episode with my eye that felt almost like a focal seizure. I really don't want my second one next week.

Livelovebehappy · 27/05/2021 22:30

enidspyton you must be very unlucky to have known so many people ‘severely’ ill after the vaccine. I’m in an age group where a lot of my friends and peers have had the vaccine, and only one person was ill with it. And what do you class as ‘severely’ ill? I would say that would describe someone hospitalised or bed bound for days. Some people will feel ill in the same way that the flu jab makes some people not very well. I would rather take my chances at odds of 1 in 250,000 deaths than the alternative. Which would mean no-one having the vaccine and multiple hospitalisations putting us into constant lockdowns.

ActonBell · 27/05/2021 22:31

@Schulte

‘ I hope this will be helpful to some who are worried by this story: theconversation.com/blood-clot-risks-comparing-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-the-contraceptive-pill-158652’

This article is over a month old. The risk of a blood clot as it’s currently understood is around 1 in 77,000.

At least stick to the facts.

Thank you for this @Schulte I realise this is a fast moving area of research. If you have a source to link to I’d be very grateful as I think it’s helpful to stay up to date with this info. This is meant to be sarky or pushing back - it can only help the conversation if we all share up to date and relevant scientific data on this. Thanks!
wdmtthgcock · 27/05/2021 22:34

I got my head ripped off on here a few months back when discussing deaths in Austria from blood clots after the AZ vaccine. I was told I didn't understand statistics. I was told that the deaths were not linked (how the posters could know that I do not know). I was accused of being an anti-vaxxer.
Austria continued to vaccinate women under 40 with AZ after other countries stopped using it for that age group. But at some point it was proven that the deaths were actually caused by the vaccine.
Now vaccination with AZ has been stopped for everyone and there will be no more AZ vaccines ordered. There must be a reason for that - presumably the government has now decided that the vaccine is not as safe as it was initially made out to be.

I am now not answering questions from anyone about whether I have had the vaccine or not. This is nobody's business but my own. About 3 weeks ago a woman asked me if I'd had it and I said no. She immediately started yelling at me about me being irresponsible and the other woman she was with became very aggressive too. It was just awful. What is wrong with people?
At that point no one in my age group without prior health conditions had been vaccinated at all, yet two women think they can start having a go?
So since then I've simply said that my health and vaccine status is between me and my doctor and no one else.

IndigoC · 27/05/2021 22:34

@ActonBell

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions

The MHRA update this every Thursday. Things have changed a lot from the initial 1 in a million guff. Every report it looks more likely that the Norwegians were right.

HelpforFree · 27/05/2021 22:35

@EnidSpyton

As time goes on, more and more cases of severe side effects are being reported. I know more people who have been severely ill after the vaccine than I do people who have even had coronavirus in the first place.

I'm not an 'anti-vaxxer', but I am very concerned by the heavy-handed, biased approach taken by the government when it comes to essentially forcing this vaccine on the entire adult population. The message is constantly to insist that it is safe, that is has been well tested, that we all need to do this to ensure we're 'doing our bit' etc - and in the process, reports of severe side effects are being brushed under the carpet or their significance downplayed to ensure maximum uptake. However, the yellow card scheme used to report side effects is very underused. We do not have an accurate picture of the severity or scale of side effects, and so we as a population are not really being given an informed choice, despite being told we are.

I don't believe these blood clots are as rare as they're making them out to be.
I also don't believe this vaccine is as safe as they claim it to be.

Covid is not deadly for the vast majority of people who catch it. Why then should we essentially be coerced (because we are being coerced, by the constant messaging, and the belittling, sneering attitude of others who consider anyone who is unsure about the vaccine to be a nutjob conspiracy theorist) into taking a vaccine to protect us from a disease that for most of us poses little to no real threat? It suits the government to roll the vaccine out like this because it makes financial sense to do so. But what will the longterm effects of these untested vaccines be? And how many people will die of the side effects? We simply don't know. The data doesn't exist. It's erroneous to keep insisting the vaccines are safe, because we don't definitively know that's true. For some people, as with Lisa Shaw, the vaccine is deadly. A needless life lost to a disease that wouldn't have killed her in the first place. We need to be talking more about this, and we need to have more nuance to the vaccine conversation. It's not as cut and dried as people are making out. I'm 35. I'm slim, fit and healthy. My chances of dying of coronavirus are miniscule. There's over a year's worth of data to back that up. What are my chances of dying of the vaccine? I have no idea. There's no equivalent data to help me weigh up my options here. So why should I take the risk? At the moment, I feel like I can't even ask that question without being told I'm a hysterical conspiracy theorist. To me, though, that's a common sense question. But such is the cult of the vaccine that any questioning of its safety is tantamount to treason. And that is very troubling.

I feel the same that vaccines need looking into in general and I mean for babies as well as is this some kind of reaction that is possibly seen in other groups with other vaccines ? I’m pro vaccination but sadly have personally known people who lost a baby and they were convinced it was due to vaccines and they were shut down with that discussion and were v upset - at the time I felt it was grieving parents looking for answers but I wonder now
CantGetNoSleep73 · 27/05/2021 22:36

@EnidSpyton i have been called an anti vaxxer for saying what you are saying. I'm far from it but I know so many that have been so ill from the jab and no one from covid. I am not saying it doesn't exist but these vaccines are almost being forced on us.

A friend of mine had her az jab (despite having had a blood clot before) doctors assured her she would be fine. She has clots in her leg and now in her lungs 😞 she is terrified!

I cannot understand why we all need vaccines suddenly - the vaccines are more risky than covid.

It's such a sad story.

The Swine flu jab was stopped for 53 deaths and yet we are still being told it's safe Hmm

Mumsgirls · 27/05/2021 22:36

My dear Dad had Astra, week later very bad stroke, then caught covid in hospital, from very active life to death in 3 weeks and we will never know if related, he had been on blood thinners as well. Very hard to come to terms with and the callusness of ministers reported this week has been another kick in the gut

Whyisitsodifficult · 27/05/2021 22:38

[quote EnidSpyton]@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo Thanks very much. I appreciate that! Fellow secondary school teacher here - the amount of kids taking their masks off to talk to me...Hmm !!

I'm very much a live and let live, you do you, person. I've really been shocked at how insistent people have been surrounding the vaccine. I'd never tell anyone what medical treatment to have.

I just avoid the topic in the staffroom now...[/quote]
Very well written post!

RedcurrantPuff · 27/05/2021 22:41

I cannot understand why we all need vaccines suddenly - the vaccines are more risky than covid

Have you been living under a rock for 15 months?

ActonBell · 27/05/2021 22:41

[quote IndigoC]@ActonBell

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions

The MHRA update this every Thursday. Things have changed a lot from the initial 1 in a million guff. Every report it looks more likely that the Norwegians were right.[/quote]
Thank you for this. I can’t see there direct figures specifically on clotting. It says there were 3-7 yellow card reports per 1000 doses but that isn’t the number of clotting cases as the vast majority of those reports related to side effects at the injection site such as soreness. Maybe I’m missing something?

I found this which I also think is quite helpful. blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/05/06/putting-risks-into-context-covid-19-vaccines-and-blood-clots/

That suggests that actually the risks might slightly outweigh the benefits for people at low risk of exposure to Covid in their 20s but that this isn’t the case statistically for other groups.

And just to reiterate, talking about stats isn’t trying to force you to do something you don’t want to do or dismiss your worries. I don’t want to do that. I just want to share clear info that might help people who are undecided or concerned to make an informed choice, whatever they choose.

EnidSpyton · 27/05/2021 22:42

@Moondust001

I don't believe these blood clots are as rare as they're making them out to be. I also don't believe this vaccine is as safe as they claim it to be.

I don't believe the moon isn't made of cheese. But I won't be posting a link to prove that. Will you be proving one to back up your claims?

If this death was a result of an exceptionally rare side-effect of the vaccine, then that is tragic. All the deaths from Covid are also tragic. Which would you prefer - because unfortunately, where we are at the moment, it is a choice of one or the other. The extreme side effects of the vaccines, even where proven, are significantly fewer than the side effects of the virus.

I'm entitled to believe what I like. I'm not saying it's a fact. I don't trust that the reporting on this is thorough or accurate. I don't believe we're being given all the information we need to make up our own minds. I believe there has been a decision to suppress the true statistics of side effects in order to enable confidence in the vaccine, as that is the government's trump card to get us out of the vaccine. Anyone who trusts this government based on their past performance is not someone whose opinion I particularly value, to be perfectly honest.

In the under 50s, deaths from covid are incredibly rare. So I don't see your point. There's no either/or choice here.

ActonBell · 27/05/2021 22:43

@Mumsgirls - I’m so sorry about your dad Flowers I can only imagine how hard this week has been. Every sympathy for your loss. X

CantGetNoSleep73 · 27/05/2021 22:44

The first letter I got for my jab way back in March said I didn't need the jab unless over 65 or had a condition which was listed...

Suddenly everyone needs a jab - even bloody children 😞

Not a chance - the risks of the jab are worse than the risks of covid for children.

So many people think it's a wonderful thing though.

Zeev · 27/05/2021 22:44

I cannot understand why we all need vaccines suddenly - the vaccines are more risky than covid

What?

Darkbrownistheriver · 27/05/2021 22:49

From a Daily Mirror article in 2019:
“Blood clots kill more people each year than AIDs, breast cancer, prostate cancer and motor vehicle crashes combined”.

IndigoC · 27/05/2021 22:51

@ActonBell

It’s in this document:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

Under “Thrombo-embolic events with concurrent low platelets”

Up to 19 May 2021, the MHRA had received Yellow Card reports of 332 cases of major thromboembolic events (blood clots) with concurrent thrombocytopenia (low platelet counts) in the UK following vaccination with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca. These events occurred in 180 women and 151 men aged from 18 to 93 years and the overall case fatality rate was 17% with 58 deaths. 17 cases have been reported after a second dose.

Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis was reported in 120 cases (average age 46 years) and 212 had other major thromboembolic events (average age 55 years) with concurrent thrombocytopenia. The estimated number of first doses of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca administered in the UK by 19 May was 24.2 million and the estimated number of second doses was 10.7 million.

The overall incidence after first or unknown doses was 13.0 per million doses.

Mammyloveswine · 27/05/2021 22:52

I have a history of blood clots...serious ones (DVT) and PE (pulmonary embolism). I'm 34..

I've had one dose of the AZ vaccine and I'll gladly take my second dose next week..

Lisa's death is tragic..may of may not be linked to vaccine but ALL medications/medicines carry risks.. the contraceptive pill for instance! Yet we don't stop women taking that!

It is clear the govt are wanting to protect people and are listening to the science..under 40s are no longer being offered AZ..

Let's not get hysterical but take a measured, common sense approach!

CantGetNoSleep73 · 27/05/2021 22:52

@RedcurrantPuff not living under a rock no but I don't believe the MSM bullshit we are fed each day either!

EnidSpyton · 27/05/2021 22:55

@Livelovebehappy

enidspyton you must be very unlucky to have known so many people ‘severely’ ill after the vaccine. I’m in an age group where a lot of my friends and peers have had the vaccine, and only one person was ill with it. And what do you class as ‘severely’ ill? I would say that would describe someone hospitalised or bed bound for days. Some people will feel ill in the same way that the flu jab makes some people not very well. I would rather take my chances at odds of 1 in 250,000 deaths than the alternative. Which would mean no-one having the vaccine and multiple hospitalisations putting us into constant lockdowns.
My mum had such disabling vertigo for six weeks she couldn't leave the house. Came on within 24 hours of the vaccine, and she's never had it before.

My 30 something work colleague developed gout within 24 hours of the vaccine. Three weeks on he's still on heavy anti inflammatories.

My brother's next door neighbour died of a heart attack brought on by a blood clot a week after her vaccine. Can't be definitively linked, but it's a pretty significant coincidence.

Three examples.

I only know two people who had confirmed covid and they said it was basically a heavy cold. And I'm a secondary school teacher. Not one of my colleagues has even tested positive throughout the last year despite us working throughout the pandemic with no protection other than a bit of cloth on our faces.

So in my experience, yes, the vaccine is worse than the disease it's meant to cure. Anecdata, sure, but we don't currently have access to any comprehensive data on vaccine side effects either, so what else am I supposed to base my views on? What Boris tells me? I hardly think so.

ActonBell · 27/05/2021 22:56

Thank you. So that points to a rate of 13 in every million doses, which is probably the source for the 1 in 77,000 figure referred to further up the thread.

ActonBell · 27/05/2021 22:56

Sorry, meant to say thank you @IndigoC

Devastatedandlost · 27/05/2021 22:56

Why are CVSTs only linked to AstraZeneca vaccine and not pzifzer. If anyone has information on this and pzifzer blood clots please can you post links. Thanks