Track and Trace

[sunglasses123]

So once T&T is up and running and you get a notification that you have been in close contact with someone with CV19. You could be bleeped all the time especially if you are meeting your family which I believe is one of the highest risks and one of them has it Passing someone within 2 metres in a supermarket has little risk.

If for example its the winter and you are due to go on holiday, get married, go to a funeral etc and you are told to isolate then why would some people even get the app if they thought they would be stopped from doing something pre booked/arranged.

I see the younger people even less likely to have the track and trace because even if they had it they are likely to have symptons.

Or do we think its likely that its only with severe cases with a huge viral load given to you that will result in you being asked to self isolate.

I work at home most of the time anyway so this wouldnt be a big issue for me (unless I was about to go on holiday - I suspect your travel insurance would not cover you for this scenario) but for others I can envisage huge concerns going forward.

No it will only be people you have spent at least some time with (I believe 15 minutes). So not a casual passing in a shop. If you get traced then you must isolate. But consider the number of cases compared to the population - it is highly unlikely to happen.

We will all get the app in our family as people's health and lives are more important than a few days away, a visit to someone. Might mean less income, DD might not get back to uni, but we've seen how I'll this can make some survivors and those who've lost their lives. We just don't want to inflict unnecessary risk on others in the hope better treatment can be found/a vaccine. The strongest person behind this is our 18 year old DD.

Track and trace isn't just about the app. If you meet up with a friend and the next day they are diagnosed with covid-19, then in theory they should give your details to a tracer who would then contact you and instruct you to isolate. That's my understanding anyway.

The app is only part of it, the contract tracers are supposed to individually contact close contacts whether they have the app or not (although the app will make it easier)

I can see there is potential for gaming and trolling but it's in the interests of everyone to engage in good faith
(if only our leaders would also hold themselves to these standards)

I will sign up for it, for the reasons @ifonly4 lays out. But I agree some people may choose to be wilfully ignorant so that they don't have to put up with any disruption to their lives (unless they become symptomatic...).

Do you recall cases where people purposely infected others with AIDS and were charged?

If you knowingly put others at risk by going on holiday or visiting then surely you must be made accountable?

How would this work for all those who cannot work from home and can't afford to be off work? I assume they would have to quickly get tested themselves.

Alice tests positive.
Trackers ring Alice, tell her to isolate and ask about her contacts.
Alice says she went to a party with Bob and she passed Colin in the park.

Trackers ring Bob and tell him to isolate and interview him about his contacts. They contact Colin but he doesn't have to isolate.

None of this depends on the app. Presumably if Alice also had the app on her phone it might also show that she sat next to Dave on the bus and Dave would also get contacted.

Not having the app is not going to let you swan around passing on the virus willy nilly.

Is there an app, I thought that wasn’t ready yet as it’s now called test and trace, track appears to have been dropped

And Bob or Dave chooses not to follow the advice to isolate there will be fines.

If you knowingly put others at risk by going on holiday or visiting then surely you must be made accountable?

You mean like Dominic Cummings?

I’m confused, genuinely. If we are not supposed to be within 2M if anyone else there won’t be anyone to trace will there? And if there is anyone we have been in contact with why can’t we just contact them ourselves? So if Sally test positive and has been in contact with Bob and Sam why can’t she just tell them herself?

The fines for not self-isolating are high. And they will know if you are complying by your phone, I'm guessing? If you don't have the app, will they come round and check, I wonder?

If we are not supposed to be within 2M if anyone else there won’t be anyone to trace will there?

Yes at the moment, but this will continue after lock down has lifted, wont it?

The problem arises when Bob says he wasnt near Alice at the party and only spoke to her for a couple of minutes from the other side of the room so doesnt need to isolate...

Bob cannot afford to isolate so now hates his friend Alice.

What happens in the event that you dispute the contact? So for example, person A gets symptoms and gives a list of their recent contacts to the tracers, including details of person B who they said they were in contact with. Person B however says that this is untrue and they did not meet person A. Would they still have to isolate (unless they could prove categorically that they weren't in contact with person A?

And that's where the app will help.

Alice might lie, might not speak to Bob or she sat next to someone she doesn't know on the bus, in a restaurant, in a shop etc.

It's anonymous.

They don't say who you had contact with. Just that you have been in contact and need to isolate.

How will it work in medical settings? I work as an administrator for the NHS, I'm on an empty ward at the moment but all my colleagues who I usually work with come to the ward to get changed and have breaks, 80% of them have tested positive and have been off in the last few weeks. Surely that means all admin and non clinical staff will be told to isolate as we will have been in contact?

Anonymous is all well and good in practice but when people are losing out financially some random person ringing you up and telling you to isolate isn't going to go down well.

And given the people involved will be close contacts of 15 minutes or more I dont think it will take much to work it out.

@Roomarmoset exactly, but it has to be 15mins I believe. I work in a nursery and have the same issue. We will potentially be closing but that isn’t possible in the NHS! If you have to give the details to the contact tracer why can’t you just phone them yourself? Also what if your friend doesn’t want you to give personal details to them? Or what if you don’t answer your phone? Lots of ppl don’t answer unknown numbers?

Have you been within 2m for over 15 minutes with your colleagues who have symptoms without PPE?

They did say it wont be counted if you or they were wearing protective gear.

@Haffdonga yes I’m sure this will a long term situation and obv the app will be different again

@MoreW1ne what would the phones show, in your example? Would the app just show that Bob and Alice were in the same room? Could Bob say he was in the kitchen the whole time and never went near Alice?