Track and Trace

[sunglasses123]

So once T&T is up and running and you get a notification that you have been in close contact with someone with CV19. You could be bleeped all the time especially if you are meeting your family which I believe is one of the highest risks and one of them has it Passing someone within 2 metres in a supermarket has little risk.

If for example its the winter and you are due to go on holiday, get married, go to a funeral etc and you are told to isolate then why would some people even get the app if they thought they would be stopped from doing something pre booked/arranged.

I see the younger people even less likely to have the track and trace because even if they had it they are likely to have symptons.

Or do we think its likely that its only with severe cases with a huge viral load given to you that will result in you being asked to self isolate.

I work at home most of the time anyway so this wouldnt be a big issue for me (unless I was about to go on holiday - I suspect your travel insurance would not cover you for this scenario) but for others I can envisage huge concerns going forward.

[eeeyoresmiles]

If we make this work, then being told to isolate should be a rare experience, not a common one. Remember the idea is that this cuts off outbreaks before they can spread far. What we want is at any one time hardly anyone being infected. In that situation, positive tests will be rare and so will be being asked to isolate as a contact. If people don't isolate when they are asked to though, then cases will spread causing more work and hassle and illness for everyone.

[AKissAndASmile]

They have already accidentally shared the private email addresses of the trackers
Are you joking?!

[user1495884620]

Maybe that was the game plan all along. Fuck off the general public so much that it causes people to fail to engage with track and trace and we're back to the herd immunity that these fuckers have wanted all along.

[milkysmum]

And how will this work when people cannot afford to take the time off work, when employers don't pay sick pay etc.. ? There is no way people who are currently living hand to mouth will voluntarily stay at home on no pay for 14 days when they don't have any symptoms, it was hard enough to convince people to stay at home with a cough and a temp, the whole thing is flawed beyond belief.

[eeeyoresmiles]

Also, do remember that the government already knows everyone's name and where they live and work. If you're having an affair or working as a spy or whatever you can just not download the app if you don't want to, but the basic information about you is already known. OK if your friend tells someone that she was with you in the park for three hours one day then they will know a bit more, but still not very much.

[antisocialdistance]

@Cherrypie32

Well, I don't know for certain, as I'm not a contact tracer, but in NZ's case, the public transport system largely uses a refillable card system, for which you have an account. You tap on and off.

So if Patient A travels on the 9.15 bus from place X to Y on Z day, the contact tracing team could alert the organisation that issues the travel cards, so they can send a form email to the account holders for the cards that registered against that particular journey, alerting them that they may be a close contact of a confirmed case and to get in touch with the Ministry of Health for further advice.

Obviously not a completely airtight system but helps. Again, I'm not 100 percent certain this does happen in NZ, but it's a pretty direct pathway.

NZ has not had an app till this week – it's all been done through human tracing systems. This is the important element. We have an app now but it's supplementary to having real-life conversations with the people involved. So if your phone was sitting on a desk and your workmate Jim had a two-hour meeting next to it, a contact tracer might ask you 'Did you have a two-hour meeting with Jim on this day? No? Okay, then that doesn't qualify as a contact.'

[Cherrypie32]

Wow, interesting anti I’m wondering how this will all scale up with a much bigger population. Thanks for replying.

[peoplepleaser1]

@milkysmum I've had to stay at home for 8 weeks, earning absolutely nothing with zero help as I don't qualify for any assistance. I went from earning great money to not one penny.

Many people are in general same boat.

If I had to do it again for 14 days to help beat this thing I would, and again I think many others would too despite the hardship. If this leaves you on the breadline UC will drag you through.

[user1495884620]

@peoplepleaser1

Only if you qualify for UC. At the committee today, someone brought up that two of his constituents have fallen through the cracks and cannot claim UC as they are on indefinite leave to remain. If it's a question of feeding your kids or self-isolating on the off-chance, well, most people are going to put their family first and that's ok now, right?

[antisocialdistance]

@Cherrypie32 I am not sure how the app will work in the UK, but in NZ, the app doesn't use GSP tracking. It's an opt-in system.

You download the app, and add the contact details you are willing to share with the Ministry of Health. When you are out and about, businesses have a QR code at the entrance that you can scan. It takes a second. If a case comes up that is identified as being at a business that you were at in a similar time frame, a contact tracer will get in touch using the details you've supplied to work out your potential exposure and whether you need to self-isolate.

The information on the businesses you've visited is only held in the system for 30 days and then automatically deleted, as obviously after that it's too long ago for the information to be any practical use.

[antisocialdistance]

Sorry, GPS!

[JimMaxwellantheshippingforcast]

This is all very Hancock's Half Hour 🙄

[Ulver]

eeeyoresmiles

Also, do remember that the government already knows everyone's name and where they live and work. If you're having an affair or working as a spy or whatever you can just not download the app if you don't want to, but the basic information about you is already known. OK if your friend tells someone that she was with you in the park for three hours one day then they will know a bit more, but still not very much.



It’s not about them knowing your phone number. That is not an issue.
It’s about them using groups of contact details And location data to analyse social structures and movements and using that data For other reasons or selling it on.
Potentially using it to manipulate your vote in the next election because they have form for repurposing data given to the Govt for others reasons in the Brexit and Bojo election.

[peoplepleaser1]

The app is not part of the current measures. The intention is to add it at a later date but the system can still work to some extent without it- and is doing in other countries.

This is our lifeline out of this mess and all the hysteria and government bashing is very unhelpful. It's embarrassing how reluctant people are to help stop the spread, every one of you is wilfully choosing not to help stop this thing.

This is about helping everyone who you love- in fact everyone full stop.

[peoplepleaser1]

@user1495884620 I didn't qualify for UC either. I've really struggled. I am able to restart work next week thank God.

I honestly would do it again to help stop the virus spreading. I want no part in spreading it, my conscience will be clear.

[user1495884620]

It's embarrassing how reluctant people are to help stop the spread, every one of you is wilfully choosing not to help stop this thing.

I have stayed at home over for two months, going out as infrequently as possible. I have stayed away from family and friends. I have foregone the things that I enjoy doing. I have done my bit to "stop this thing" and now it turns out that that wasn't necessary, I just needed to follow my instincts. A couple of weeks ago, I would have been a strong advocate for track and trace. Now, I don't trust or believe in the government says and have no faith either that their system will work or that it won't be illegally mining data.

[user1495884620]

peoplepleaser1

Good for you. If I was suddenly in the situation that I was going to have no income for three months, I would manage as well. I wouldn't like it, but I have a buffer to survive temporarily. There are people living hand to mouth at the best of times though and with no safety net, they simply cannot survive with no income.

[eeeyoresmiles]

It’s not about them knowing your phone number. That is not an issue.
It’s about them using groups of contact details And location data to analyse social structures and movements and using that data For other reasons or selling it on.
Potentially using it to manipulate your vote in the next election because they have form for repurposing data given to the Govt for others reasons in the Brexit and Bojo election.

I take your point, but for the non app side this is going to be limited to if you actually are a contact of someone infected. And for a lot of people the app will not expose any new information beyond what is exposed already by their use of existing software and banking.

I would like to see opposition parties working in the background on tracking all extensions of government powers and pushing for sunset clauses, destruction of data and so on. I don't have a problem with public health measures that temporarily require me to be willing to tell public health organisations where I have been, or to allow my phone to be detected, though.

I have considered using an old cracked phone for the app, with nothing but the app on it, so the app can't suck up other data and contacts, if it's dodgy. But tbh as someone who uses Facebook I'm probably kidding myself that I have any secrets anyway!

[peoplepleaser1]

@user1495884620 but it was necessary. You know it was necessary. I know it was necessary. DC did his own thing. He was wrong. The PM should not be defending him but that doesn't mean we were wrong to isolate and limit our contacts.

We need more good people like us, and less people like him to beat this. It's the only way. It really is the only way.

I honestly feel we all have a choice here- to help or to hinder.

After this is all over you can show your opinion of the government via your vote. If we don't get this over we will be in such a mess that no political party can help.

[NailsNeedDoing]

There is no way that some people will be able to do this without a guarantee that they will get paid. If the government can come up with furlough (something I completely support but don’t benefit from) then they can come up with a way of ensuring that everyone they ask to isolate get paid. I’m in the fortunate position of knowing I would likely get paid if I had to isolate, but it’s impossible take this scheme seriously knowing that you can’t trust that people will be supported in making it work.

[NELass]

@Ulver

People can just leave their phones at home.
It’s not obligatory to have one on you at all times.
There is no way I’m uploading any govt app after the dodgy way they used govt data for their Brexit and Election campaigns.
There is no way I’m using an app that Cummings has anything to do with.
I have family abroad and may go and stay with them over the summer If it’s allowed and I will get tested and go into quarantine on either end.

The contact tracing has nothing to do with the app. It’s public Health England. Even if you don’t download the app, you’d still be contacted if you were In Close contact with someone who tested positive.

[RoseAndRose]

This may be an immensely silly question, but if this all works on Bluetooth, and that can penetrate at least some types of wall, then will all phone pings need to be checked?

Because I'm be mightily pissed off if I was told to isolate because someone tested positive who worked for a totally different organisation, with whom we shared no common parts (other than a dividing wall, which happened to have a desk by it on both sides)

[user1495884620]

peoplepleaser1

That's the thing though. I don't know what's right any more. Something stinks to high heaven and I don't know what it is. I've never been a conspiracy theorist but something is not right. Give it time and I'll be protesting against 5G at this rate!

[strugglingwithdeciding]

Surely if you find out you have been in contact with someone who has the virus you would self isolate as a decent human being wether your friend rings you or a track and trace does it matter
While the virus is with us we have to learn to live alongside it , plus I guess testing should be quicker so this might mean original person finds they don't have it plus hopefully numbers are lower so less transmission going on
But people on here have been screaming not enough has been done and we should be more like other countries yet when we implement things that other countries do then that's wrong ??

[PuzzledObserver]

As has already been noted, some posters are confusing Test and Trace with the contact tracing app. That will come later and increase the reach of tracing to include the stranger you sat next to on the tube (and yes, that will work, because it relies on BlueTooth, not a mobile signal).

But as from tomorrow, the army of contact tracers will start contacting the 2,000 people who got a positive test result today to find out who they have been in contact with in the 2-7 days before their symptoms started.

If they have been following social distancing rules, then for many of them, that will be only members of their own households. Short phone call.

For those who don’t want to comply, there are basically two alternatives: continue lockdown for everyone, OR, let the virus explode again. Which do you prefer?

I agree it is imperfect, and I find it galling that DC appears to have got away with it and BoJo is a complete arse. BUT, the most important thing, surely is to keep the virus under control while increasing economic activity, so that we can avoid the harms which are undoubtedly coming from lockdown. How else do you suggest we do it?