Aibu to ask why we should bother?

[Blossomspring]

Lots of threads on here about people not taking CV seriously and I’m just not sure I get it.

How can you expect people to take it seriously when the government does not impose a proper lockdown?

Also lots of people sitting in judgement of those still trying to work, keep businesses open who haven’t been covered by the government’s income protection. How can you sit in judgement of people who might lose everything, who are being forced to choose between their health and their families as well as others and earning a wage to survive? Another sign the gov aren’t taking it seriously or allowing people to take it seriously.

If you want people to self isolate to protect themselves and others then you need to provide them with the income to do that and also force people to stay at home.

Im self employed and have now lost 6 months worth of work. Most people in my sector saying there won’t be work now for months. None of us covered by the measures announced yesterday. My death and even that Of my family’s is of less concern to me than not being able to survive and losing everything. It might be an unpopular view to publicly say but it’s not an unreal view.

You can only die once even if it is miserable and sometimes life is worse than death.

As long as my income isn’t protected and I’m forced to choose I will keep going out to try and find work and move around.

I'm in a very similar position, OP. I'm self employed and already losing work. So far, the government offering isn't doing much for me. I'm not VAT registered and not liable for much tax on account, so the pushed back deadlines don't help me. I won't get the grant that's linked to rates/small business rates relief as I rent my office from a charitable trust who are rates-exempt. I don't employ anyone so I can't get the payroll grant either. I'm pretty stuffed as things stand, although I'm lobbying to get the government help extended to cover people in my sort of position. I think you're being totally irresponsible and incredibly self-centred. Put some energy into finding solutions instead of whining about your problems. Almost everyone is going to suffer because of this, some greatly, some because of you.

I understand where you are coming from as we are self employed household too, yanbu to want more help. Yabu to go and say "I will rather spread it than shut down".
There will be help brought in too for self employed. This is such an unprecedented situation that it can't all be sorted at once.
I have checked on possibility to defer as many bills as possible so mortgage holiday, waiting for reply from council about council tax payments, leccy and gas should be fine too from what the company said. This gives 3 months of much lower bills. If it comes to worse I am simply cancelling all direct debits for a month, even the small bills. Gov is coming out with new way to help every day.
Our 2 month savings buffer should then easily spread to 4 months like this if we have absolutely £0 income.

Everyone should speak to your mortgage companies if you are having trouble. Same with all other bills. Renters should speak to landlords too. There will be more help

If you say so, Forza, 'Limiting interaction' is a very subjective term, isn't it? What has hand-washing got to do with it? Those carrying on working are not washing their hands? Those who are now under house-arrest are feverishly washing them all the time - that is, until the essential trips out to stock up?

No - “limiting interaction” is not a remotely subjective term. It’s quite clear. Essential contact only. Plenty of online dictionaries to consult if any of these words are too complex for you.

Do you understand anything at all about viruses and how they spread? Anything? They survive by being passed from person to person so that’s their primary motivation...they want to spread. And there’s only a limited number if ways they can get into a human - through the nose and mouth primarily.

Washing hands will help - some viruses will be washed away before they can make it to someone’s nose or throat. Most won’t, but some will. So that’s why we do it . And yes...my son went to Morrisons at 8am as we have nothing in. He got cereal, milk and coffee which is all they had. He washed his hands as soon as he came in the front door. That’s what sensible people are doing.

And your sneering about “essential trips to stock up” is embarrassing, quite honestly. People need to eat, quite obviously. Are you not aware of that?

This virus is spreading exponentially. We are all going to get it at some stage. A large proportion will be ill enough to require an ICU bed. It would be helpful, don’t you think, if they didn’t all need one at once? If we can stagger & delay when we all get it the NHS has a greater chance to cope and more lives will be saved.

This is only possible if we all follow the advice we are given...essential contact only, social distance and rigorous, frequent hand washing.

Unfortunately, only some of us give a shit, apparently. You may feel all clever and intellectually sharp with your sarcastic comments but actually this attitude is dim, selfish and dangerous. Get educated and quickly.

Also there are urgent calls by all uk supermarkets for staff. There is no shame in that kind of work and it can temporarily help to those who can do the job.

I also wish people wouldn't feel morally superior about 'only going out for food'

My DH is in food retail, working 45 hours a week directly with the public, in an area with a lot of cases. He doesn't have some magical virus protection.

I suppose if he gets sick I'm allowed to blame all of you shopping for food', I mean why should he put his life on the line just so YOU could feed YOUR family? Why didn't you have six months of food saved up???

But obviously I don't think that. I think everyone should limit their interactions with others but that is not going to look the same for everyone, depending on their circumstances. Let's not be so quick to judge and call people murderers and all that.

I also wish people wouldn't feel morally superior about 'only going out for food

Er, no one has said that, or even implied it.

Your husband has an essential job, yes? Even the government has said that. His contact with others comes under the “essential” category.

Some people HAVE to be out there, those of us who don’t can play our part in slowing down infection rates.

Jeez.

It won't be your posts educating me, Forza, MN isn't where I would go for that. You want to harangue and argue and I'm not interested in that quite honestly.

This virus is indiscriminate and that is going to be a leveller of sorts. We should be supporting, it's what Mumsnet is famous for but not now, not this raging. First it was Brexit, then flooding, then the virus and the posts are all the same - pitting poster against poster. It's pathetic.

Are you mad ? this is VERY different to flu - its double interstitial pneumonia NOT FLU ......have you SEEN the footage from Italy ???

Mumsmas I posted too soon. You are right in that this is not the influenza virus, it's a coronavirus, which is different. This one is a nasty one in that it has 20x the lethality of seasonal influenza, but it's behaving in the same way as the flu virus (targeting older populations, vulnerable groups, those with underlying conditions). All we really know about it is that, from the Italian data, 99% of people who died had underlying conditions, over 80% of people have mild symptoms, and the government hasn't brought in an 'enforced' lockdown (in that people can still move around). Holland have taken a different approach to this and so have other countries. We just don't know very much at the moment but the UK government approach suggest that herd immunity is a factor. Wish we knew, though. Good luck to everyone. I, personally, believe that the government is doing a reasonable job and I am following the advice to the letter.

I understand what you are saying op.
Some people would rather due than live a lonely, poor existence.
It's very difficult for most people at the moment.
We have all been brought up within a capitalist culture of looking out for number one.
Yes there are lots of caring thoughtful people but the bottom line is we live in a society which is survival of the fittest.
'caring' roles have never been highly rewarded financially. You get paid far more in other industries.
Now those that look down on lower paid or caring professions are worried because quite frankly they need those people.
On the other hand you can't put others are risk it's just not fair.

@BarleylemonPenguin We do need to take into account that those with underlying health conditions do get vaccinated against flu, however. The difference is that people who are younger and healthier are having more severe symptoms. I've never ended up with a very painful chest when I've had flu (except last year when I developed secondary pneumonia. (Even then it was nothing like this!)

one trip a week to a supermarket to stock up on essentials for a family, hand washing and maintaining distance to limit exposure, is not immoral.

Those are your exact words Forza. And there are loads of posts all over MN where anyone who goes outside is a selfish twat trying to murder their family, oh but if you go out for food' it's ok.

I just wish people would think a bit more about that. For all you know, you could be an asymptomatic carrier infecting people every time you go to the shop. The OP might not have the virus and might never infect anybody.

Thinking of people as moral or immoral in these situations is dangerous, I think.

Op do you have kids? A partner/husband? Because if so I feel fucking sorry for them to have a mother and/or partner that would put money above their owns lives. Imagine that. I don't care for you constant "it's an unpopular opinion" bullshit, this is more than that. You are saying that you value materialistic things over the lives of you own family. What kind of person thinks that way?

Clearly someone like me grey. You saying that doesn’t change it

GreytExpectations, RTFT - at least the OP's posts.

Who are you or anybody else to sit in judgement of what other people think and feel about their own circumstances?

Not trying to change it @Blossomspring just clarifying that I understood correctly what you are saying. You didn't answer me when I asked if you had kids or a partner but regardless I very much hope they see what you are really like.

The OP has said she doesn't have DC.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

GreytExpectations, RTFT - at least the OP's

I did read all Ops posts and i have every right to judge if I want to. This is an public Internet forum and I certainly will look down on people who value money over their own family. Who are you to tell me I can't voice my own opinion on a forum specifically designed for asking opinions?

Don't be so nasty

It's hardly materialistic to want shelter and food ffs.

The OP knew the reaction she would get from some posters, surely? Some of whom are worried for family members and friends who are vulnerable or are themselves. People are dying! Others are already ill, like me.

The response could have been much worse actually, because a lot of others are facing financial uncertainty as well.

It's hardly materialistic to want shelter and food ffs.

Really I'm the nasty one here? So it's completely OK to not care if your family dies so long as you have food and shelter. How is that view OK?

Indeed LyingWitchInTheWardrobe the most morally superior person on this thread is you.

I personally would rather die than see the whole country brought to its knees economically & my children's future ruined. Or even if my children died, if the futures of all surviving children were ruined. I don't support that.

Actually I don't think there are only 2 choices. We could be doing a South Korean control measures instead. Not ruin the economy & not overwhelm the health care system. I hope UK can move to that.

I think your post is so true @Mittens030869 the OP knew the kind of response she would get and I'm actually quite annoyed at all the PPs who are complain at me and other posters for pointing out how awful and selfish the OP is being. Fine she knows it and owns up to it but why is it a surprise that some of us will be outraged at someone saying they essentially care more about money than their own family? I'm concerned at the amount of people on here who agree with her...

”Self-employed people have paid far less tax, therefore they are responsible for more hit when times are hard. This is what you signed up for.”

Are you fucking kidding!? Seriously?

There are no huge tax breaks. Seriously. Someone tell me more because I have to set aside 30% of my wages for tax, NI, student loans etc. And I’m a sole trader in my first year of business.

Why does MN hate the self employed so much?