Aibu to ask why we should bother?

[Blossomspring]

Lots of threads on here about people not taking CV seriously and I’m just not sure I get it.

How can you expect people to take it seriously when the government does not impose a proper lockdown?

Also lots of people sitting in judgement of those still trying to work, keep businesses open who haven’t been covered by the government’s income protection. How can you sit in judgement of people who might lose everything, who are being forced to choose between their health and their families as well as others and earning a wage to survive? Another sign the gov aren’t taking it seriously or allowing people to take it seriously.

If you want people to self isolate to protect themselves and others then you need to provide them with the income to do that and also force people to stay at home.

Im self employed and have now lost 6 months worth of work. Most people in my sector saying there won’t be work now for months. None of us covered by the measures announced yesterday. My death and even that Of my family’s is of less concern to me than not being able to survive and losing everything. It might be an unpopular view to publicly say but it’s not an unreal view.

You can only die once even if it is miserable and sometimes life is worse than death.

As long as my income isn’t protected and I’m forced to choose I will keep going out to try and find work and move around.

Not everyone has the luxury of choice.

In times of crisis, self-employed people should be entitled to the same protections as those who are PAYE. We all pay the same taxes, so why should some people be treated better than others?

They're still paying the same taxes as you are, yet you believe they don't qualify for the same help from the government?

Jobs are being underwritten so that they are not lost which will cause even more devastation for everyone if it happens. Nothing to do with how much tax people pay.

Self-employed people can claim benefits which, when you add in housing element (if they rent - mortgage holiday if they don’t) extra for kids & dependants plus all the safeguards in operation if you can’t pay basic bills, it’s a doable package.

I would personally have preferred a UI arrangement (which may still happen) but this protects a lot of people.

Of course they should get the same help from the government but that doesn't change that fact that by being self employed you have to take on the risks associated with that choice.

But that has nothing to do with the current situation then, does it? If you believe everyone should be entitled to the same help, then that should be that. Your employment status should be irrelevant in times of a global pandemic.

Self-employed people can claim benefits which, when you add in housing element (if they rent - mortgage holiday if they don’t) extra for kids & dependants plus all the safeguards in operation if you can’t pay basic bills, it’s a doable package.

If you're self employed you're only entitled (at present) to the same amount as SSP which is £94 a week. Nothing even close to what full-time PAYE employees are getting.

Watch (from your comfy home with running water, a gas fire and food in the cupboards) what happens when India gets hit.

And West Africa, too, where my DM works 2 months a year (at 80). Millions are already dying of malaria every year, so they definitely won't cope with a COVID-19 pandemic.

So, Adaline - if you were in charge you’d do what, exactly?

Get self-employed people to submit forms with an estimate of their monthly income so they can be sent a cheque?

Good idea. Hundreds of staff at work when they should be self-isolating spending months going through forms and authorising payments?

user1471590586 I have insurance. They have told us they won't be paying out for this.

That’s not all they get. Factor in mortgage holidays, universal credit housing element (for renters) amounts for dependants et al.

A single self-employed person earning £2.5k a month (after tax), paying £1k mortgage and £150 council tax plus other utilities and etc has how much free and clear cash a week left?

Probably around £100.

I just think that help should either be means-tested or it should be universal. We will all be paying for these measures in the long run so it should at least be fair. The current measures are not fair. Someone with their wages being 80% covered might have 100,000 in the bank and will still receive up to £2,000 of help each month. Another person who is SE might have 20,000 of savings which would mean that they are not even eligible to apply for UC. There is a massive disparity here that is not explained away by saying that SE should have planned better or that SE should realise that they are operating at more of a risk.

Get self-employed people to submit forms with an estimate of their monthly income so they can be sent a cheque?

No. I'd give everyone a basic salary to help them through this time. So every adult over the age of 18 gets a certain amount of money in their bank to enable them to feed their children, pay their bills and support their family.

No need to means-test, just make sure the population is fed. No need to spend money means-testing people or getting people to fill out forms. No need to for anything to be authorised beyond making sure you are who you say you are.

people are not taking it seriously for sure. I live in a coastal town and due to the sunshine, everyone is out and enjoying a pint or two on the prom/beach!! unfortunately this government have well and truly underestimated the stupidity, lack of morals and social responsibility of the Great British public. The only way is a full lockdown as people are clearly incapable of following scientific and medical advice

*Not everyone has the luxury of choice.

In times of crisis, self-employed people should be entitled to the same protections as those who are PAYE. We all pay the same taxes, so why should some people be treated better than others?*

Everyone has the choice. Its not easy setting up as self employed and its much easier to have PAYE job. It's boils down to money. Self employed can make more money than a lot salaried jobs and with that comes the sacrafice and the added flexibility. It's all about what works for you but we can't pain it all with the same brush because it doesn't work like that.

Oh and also I never said they don't deserve government help.

Everyone has the choice. Its not easy setting up as self employed and its much easier to have PAYE job.

That depends on where you live, what employment choices you have near there, whether you have access to public transport, childcare, have a partner. It works for lots of people but not for everyone.

Choice is a luxury.

Sorry, I stand by that everyone has a choice. I think it's more about convienience in regards to job searching. Plenty of jobs available offered across different sectors with different levels of requirement and hours. Nobody is forced into self employment.

No. I'd give everyone a basic salary to help them through this time. So every adult over the age of 18 gets a certain amount of money in their bank to enable them to feed their children, pay their bills and support their family

Yes, so would I.

But nobody has been left in danger of losing their homes or being unable to support their families. For you to keep suggesting that they have is scaremongering. Self-employed people have not had £94 a week flung at them and that’s it. There are benefits in kind. If you have a £1k mortgage and are allowed a free, no-questions asked holiday that’s essentially another £1k you’ve been given.

It’s not as bleak as you’re making out.

I don't know what OP means by going out trying to find work. You haven't said what kind of work you do or what that will entail OP. Within days unless that work falls under certain protections you may be prevented from leaving your home to look for or carry out work. If you are meaning any work, then there are places recruiting now , like supermarkets, whose workers probably will be protected to continue.

Choice is a luxury

Yeah - so is food and home security during the biggest crisis of our lifetimes. Be grateful we have a country with the resources to provide that instead of whining that a few people have a bit less cash for a few months.

Fucking hell. You people.

I worry more about this going on for months and months, and the deaths that will follow from another 10 years of austerity, than the deaths that will ensue in mostly people of old age if we let this thing take hold.

The problem is the total open ended timeframe. No one has a plan for how and when we get out of it. We can’t afford a 12 month lockdown, nor is it socially viable.

The first plan to isolate the ill and elderly while letting the well get the virus was the correct one, but the government didn’t mandate it, so here we are.

Kids are at home, people are out of work, we don’t know how long for. While people including the very elderly are freely roaming the town centres and public transport. It’s a joke.

A single self-employed person earning £2.5k a month (after tax), paying £1k mortgage and £150 council tax plus other utilities and etc has how much free and clear cash a week left? Probably around £100

Bollocks.

After mortgage and council tax, they still have the equivalent of a fulltime salary. It doesn't cost £1250 a month for utilities plus TV licence and a phone, and if it does, they need lessons in how to manage their income, not extra handouts, as they won't be able to manage that either.

What is your industry op?

OP that’s crossed my mind actually, whether or not it’s worth it to the average person, given the circumstances everyone will be in over the coming months and potentially years. It’s not my personal opinion but I can see how some, who would be affected so much so that they feel the gain isn’t worth the suffering. (I do feel all life is worth saving wherever possible fwiw)

People have pointed out and quite rightly so, thousands of people die each day due to lack of clean water/food etc... but no one bats an eye lid. There’s no effort to save those poor souls...

I also seen a debate about the healthcare in the USA, whereby if you’re not insured that’s it, you die, even if you’re young and fit. It seems like coronavius patients are different though and they’re treated regardless of insurance or not.

I do wonder what makes this situation different? Why is this taken so seriously when the vast majority of people that will die are the elderly. Don’t get me wrong it’s awful and I’m so pleased they are making a big deal about it but why don’t they care about other vulnerable groups this much...

When I say ‘they’ I mean the governments all over the world

What job do you do op? As they may stop all non essential work soon.

Potkettlexx I've been asking the same questions...

Greyt utter bullshit that people have a choice about what job they do, when many simply do not. You are either talking from a position of privilege or ignorance.