Aibu to ask why we should bother?

[Blossomspring]

Lots of threads on here about people not taking CV seriously and I’m just not sure I get it.

How can you expect people to take it seriously when the government does not impose a proper lockdown?

Also lots of people sitting in judgement of those still trying to work, keep businesses open who haven’t been covered by the government’s income protection. How can you sit in judgement of people who might lose everything, who are being forced to choose between their health and their families as well as others and earning a wage to survive? Another sign the gov aren’t taking it seriously or allowing people to take it seriously.

If you want people to self isolate to protect themselves and others then you need to provide them with the income to do that and also force people to stay at home.

Im self employed and have now lost 6 months worth of work. Most people in my sector saying there won’t be work now for months. None of us covered by the measures announced yesterday. My death and even that Of my family’s is of less concern to me than not being able to survive and losing everything. It might be an unpopular view to publicly say but it’s not an unreal view.

You can only die once even if it is miserable and sometimes life is worse than death.

As long as my income isn’t protected and I’m forced to choose I will keep going out to try and find work and move around.

OP has no children, addressed that in her posts.

You of course Greyt have the right to look a bit silly that you didn't know that but, post away. You're in good company of plenty of judgemental bile-spouters today.

When this is over you can go out and earn more money.
Once you are dead everything stops. You don’t suddenly just spring back to life and carry on as normal. That is it.

If everyone stayed in just for a few weeks and stopped finding “vital” reasons to go out that aren’t really that vital then it would be over sooner.

Unfortunately if only half the people are isolating themselves and the other half are going about because they can’t go without for a couple of weeks then more people will go to the wall as it will take longer to get over.

I don’t want a total lockdown but I can see that is the only way to get through to people.

Take some personal responsibility

To be honest i dont care about other people because they never gave a shit about me. I live alone and neither of my neighbours have bothered to reach out to me. Fuck you all

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

Op has family which she puts 2nd to income.

My death and even that Of my family’s is of less concern to me than not being able to survive and losing everything

Grey - I’m not annoyed with you. You’re perfectly entitled to your opinion although you didn’t read all my own posts clearly as I stated I have no kids.

I don’t think it’s relevant though. I’m of no less value simply because I chose not to have children.

You of course Greyt have the right to look a bit silly that you didn't know that but, post away

Nope don't feel silly, I made a mistake and misread. We all make mistakes (except you, I'm sure you are perfect @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe) but my point still stands, she does have family. Clearly you also wouldn't care about your phone family either

Indeed LyingWitchInTheWardrobe the most morally superior person on this thread is you.

I'm afraid I agree. Some of us are genuinely anxious about loved ones who are ill or who are at risk. Or we're ill ourselves. The OP's thread was goady to say the least and her lack of empathy is what we're reacting to.

And we haven't all been nasty with it either. I do think the OP has genuine reasons for being anxious about money, and she's had hard times in the past so I can empathise with her, and the government should do more for self-employed people otherwise others like the OP will continue going out to earn money.

Is it too much to ask that you have empathy for those of us who are already ill or have underlying health issues or pare anxious about loved ones?

Chocolatecakefan sorry I don't hate self-employed people. I have been told that self-employed people pay less tax than PAYE people so many times by different people that i assumed it must be true.

I suppose I am letting self-isolation and job uncertainty get to me more than I thought. I was just wondering why the op was ignoring posters who were asking about getting a temporary job as key worker.

You still have family though. Kids aren't the only way to have a family and you don't seem to care about their lives. You'd rather lose everyone you love instead of lose money and that's just something I can ever agree with @Blossomspring but I assume you expected a shock response from posters on this thread. Apparently according to certain people on this thread im awful for thinking that....

OP just to say that I completely understand. Am in a similar situation. I'm still shell-shocked by the blatant and unapologetic disparity shown yesterday at 5pm between people they are willing to rescue with taxpayers money (I'm a tax payer) to ensure they have a survival wage of up to £2,500 each (potentially £5000 for a couple) who could be sitting at home, while the self-employed need to get in line for £400 per month of benefits. Council tax and utilities are still coming out of our accounts, nevermind business overheads. I'm going to remember this when the economy picks up and I choose how and where to spend my income. The self-employed will have long memories of yesterday (a hugely traumatic day for all of us). If any s-e stay in the UK when businesses picks up, there had better be a political party we can vote for by the next election. This one showed what they think of us. I finally understand why some people become Swiss tax exiles. And I'm a life-long supporter of public services.

To everyone who says they agree and understand the OP:

If you had to chose to either save you family (can be partner, kids, parents ect) or save your income but not both, which would you choose?

If you say family than you clearly don't agree with the OP.

People do not understand risk and these sites feed fear.

That fear drives the fear threads and stockpiling threads.

There is nothing you can do about it. You cannot change peoples basic instincts.

I do not know if there have been such extensive threads about flu deaths before or road deaths or pollution deaths because we accept those as normal.

This is just a flu which we are not accustomed to yet.

The NHS cannot cope and that is why you are all being advised to stay inside. The preppers threads which have been encouraged on here mean that you people are all going to get CV in overcrowded close proximity conditions.

You do not understand risk.

It is just flu.

Stay indoors. Stop stockpiling. Avoid crowds. Look after each other instead.

DianaT1969 you're never going to a bar, club, gym or restaurant again?

I think the problem is Grey that you’re seeing this very simplistically - “you’d rather lose money than people you love”.

Of course not, it’s not about losing money. It’s about going back to abject poverty, the stress the mental anguish the years of suffering and toiling. It’s exhausting. I don’t want to go back to that. I’ve had enough. I would rather die than go through that again. I don’t necessarily expect you to understand or get that straight away because if you haven’t ever been through that then why would you? That’s not your fault and It’s easy to reach for the simplistic answer of oh you just want money and value that. I really don’t. I’m not flashy, I don’t buy unnecessarily. I’ve bought pretty much nothing since this began apart from what I would normally buy grocery wise which is less than even a normal shop someone would do because I eat frugally so I’ve not panic bought or even bought extra.

What I do value more than anything is peace of mind and stability and enough to live on to get by. I’m happy to save and look after myself. And I’ve noticed people often say things like I have it tough or had it tough and I got through it and I’m not selfish like you are - but I do sometimes wonder have you? Yes you may have had it tough and difficult but if you’ve had family to fall back on and friends who can help you in many ways then you are very lucky.

But the sad truth is many people don’t have even that or have friends and family who themselves are struggling and not in the position to help. And it’s gruelling. Ten years of austerity and working hard to try and make a different life with very little help if any from anyone else and honestly maybe I’m just not resilient enough - maybe that’s true - but it’s how I feel now that I am just done. And I can’t apologise for that.

@Idreamofsummerdays I don't think your post is relevant to the thread that much. Also it isn't just a flu so please stop sharing misinformation unless you have actual scientific and medical sources

Blossomspring do you think you could put your business on hold and get a job stacking shelves or in logistics etc though?

I suspect you’re angry and lashing out op, because your post actually is illogical, you say you’ve lost six months of work. And people in your sector say there won’t be work for months, I’m not sure where you’re trudging about trying to find it, but I’m unsure how successful you can be based on what you’ve already stated.

Millions of people are still going to work every day. There is no difference there, I understand you need to pay the bills, everyone does, but potentially you need to look for another solution, a job, with a guaranteed income, instead of fruitlessly spending your time trudging round looking for non existent work now. It is unlikely you’ll find enough to pay your bills so you likely need to find another solution if benefits is not enough.

In the meantime, I’d advise you to claim what you can, and apply for jobs at the same time, to at least keep yourself afloat.

Op, I actually understand what you are saying and I'm not suggesting you are flashy. But it is simplistic because you are say:
It’s about going back to abject poverty, the stress the mental anguish the years of suffering and toiling. It’s exhausting. I don’t want to go back to that.

So, you'd rather your loved ones die than you go through the above temporarily? A family is a support system, you wouldn't have to go through it alone.

Please don't suggest I couldn't understand because i can. I just am not the type of person who would sacrifice my family for my income.

I don’t know if my loved ones would die. But I certainly don’t want to not work because I might die or they might die. That was the point. It’s why these replies are confusing - because I said I would continue to go out and get work.

And that’s what people are saying to do. Whilst at the same time saying it’s selfish to spread the virus and walk around.

So which one is it? My point was that until the government give a basic income for everyone that allows you to put your health and others’ first then I won’t be doing that.

I also think you are simplifying it massively because you are positing it as a definite case “your loved ones will die”. You just have no idea and in a situation like this where that’s an uncertainty and the life balance of each person very nuanced some people will absolutely take that risk.

I don’t know if my loved ones would die. But I certainly don’t want to not work because I might die or they might die. That was the point. It’s why these replies are confusin

You are getting these replies because you OP lacks a lot of empathy and your own words were that you are more concerned about money than your family's lives. So by that logic you essentially have said you don't care that you are putting your family's lives at risk as long as you still have your income.

To everyone who says they agree and understand the OP

If you had to chose to either save you family (can be partner, kids, parents ect) or save your income but not both, which would you choose

If you say family than you clearly don't agree with the OP

Don't be daft, it's not as black and white as that. For starters income is clearly vitally important or they wouldn't just have bailed out all employed people. Severe financial hardship causes all manner of difficulties for people including marital breakdown, suicide, bankruptcy, homelessness etc. etc.

I also think you are simplifying it massively because you are positing it as a definite case “your loved ones will die”

OP, I'm posting that because YOU said you are more concerned about money than their death. I'm giving a worst case scenario and judging the situation on a possibility of them dying. I never said they will, I simply pointed out that it seems like youd not be concerned if they did die as long as you have your income.

Plenty of people are going out to work. The op is simply angry she’s not getting her income paid by the government so phrasing it in a way to be goady. That she would rather her loved ones die than she goes without. Millions are going to work every day, she is no different.