IDF confirms authenticity of a photo of a soldier destroying a statute of Jesus Christ

[childlessbutconcerned]

https://x.com/idf/status/2045973415643767091?s=46

Disgraceful.

They're only saying this because American Christians are up in arms about it. I genuinely don't think they give two hoots.

This. Hamas are dreadful abhorrent human beings, but so are many IDF soldiers. People always say 'yeah yeah yeah, but Hamas'. Do the IDF not strive to be better than terrorists? Honestly, they're just as bad if not worse as they do what they do from a place of strength. They are the Goliath in this situation.

Of course most of the IDF will strive to be better than terrorists.

As has been mentioned already (and is obvious anyway) all armies have their share of "bad apples". The soldiers responsible for this incident have been identified and punished.

Somehow the IDF are uniquely expected to have no bad apples, I don't know why.

You realise Hezbollah originally 'annexed' part of Southern Lebanon themselves after they were expelled from Jordan? Then proceeded to start firing missiles at northern Israel, amassing arms (guess where they got those from!) and digging a huge tunnel system. They've pretty much pushed out the original civilians from there so that they can spend their days plotting how to attack Israel. The Lebanese government needs to deal with all this, but they haven't and won't, because they've also been infiltrated by Hezbollah and are actually stronger militarily than the Lebanese army! Gaza was worse because Hamas became the government. If the people were to try to get rid of them, it won't end well and thousands would die, just like in Iran. It's a tragedy.

Like a cancer that spreads through a region you can try to remove these terrorists but they always come back. This is why the US won't be able to get rid of the IRGC in Iran, nor Israel expel Hezbollah from Lebanon, because these groups are set up in a way so they regenerate, even if a 'military giant' tries to wipe them out. That's their strength. Even if you killed every living person in Lebanon you wouldn't have wiped out the ideology, nor people elsewhere who will one day return and start all over again.

All this killing is abhorrent, but I will by no means say Israel is somehow 'worse' than these truly awful terrorist groups (which seems to be the majority view on this forum), who hold entire populations hostage with their threats and teach young children hatred, because if these groups have their way, they will destroy Israel and kill all Jews (they've said that's their goal!). Don't think they won't come for us Western infidels next. So what should Israel do? No easy solution to be found. What do you think they should do?

For starters, I think the IDF should not deliberately attack civilians or target children. The IDF has no moral compass. Even armies need a moral compass. They use young boys as target practice, with doctors of all nationalities including US and British medics testifying to the phenomenon of ‘cluster’ injuries - noticing children, dead and alive, being brought in, all with injuries to the same part of the body on the same days. Monday legs, Tuesday, backs, Wednesday heads…They fired on children playing with firecrackers to celebrate Ramadan, killing one of them. They posed no threat. The soldiers knew it was a firework, and couldn’t harm them. They shot a boy in a refugee camp and formed a barrier to prevent paramedics getting to him and watched him bleed to death. Tiny children shot for no reason other than the IDF can do what they want.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cjelp738zd7o?app-referrer=search
The 4 Bakr boys (eldest was 11) killed by a missile fired from a ship when they were playing football on a beach.
These examples are the tiny tip of a very ugly iceberg which has existed for many, many years. And what Israel seems to want is as many dead Palestinians as possible, so don’t lecture me on who has the moral high ground, and that Israel has no choice. We all have a choice, a duty to speak up when wrongs are being committed. Deliberately killing children and innocent civilians is abhorrent, whoever does it, and the IDF is guilty of this on a regular basis. The only reason a fuss has been made about the statue is that Netanyahu is afraid that a picture of a statue of Jesus Christ toppled and being attacked with a sledgehammer would prove to be beyond the limit for some of his allies. Dead and tortured children? Not so much, apparently.

Where have I said 'Israel have no choice'? Of course they have a choice. They can fight back or they can just keep sitting and taking it, but both options have heavy consequences. You haven't even acknowleged what Hezbollah have done/are doing - don't you think they are also abhorrent? And Hamas? Also don't forget there's a massive amount of anti-Israel propaganda out there. Massive.

You asked what Israel is supposed to do, as though it has ino real choice. A nation can defend itself without deliberately targeting innocent civilians, and children, which the IDF have done time and time again. You haven’t addressed that.
I said killing innocent civilians and children is abhorrent whoever does it - that includes Hamas and Hezbollah…
On the anti-Israel propaganda front, I think one of the main sources is Israel itself. Some of its actions certainly speak louder than words.

I was shocked when I saw young Jewish boys spitting on two nuns. Broad daylight, lots of people around and no apology or telling off from the adults with them. This was about 3 years ago.

Sorry, are we supposed to be surprised that a military group that bombs hospitals, schools, refugee camps and shoots children queuing for water are now destroying a statue of Jesus?

The IOF has always been like this and it will never change. Israel is a rogue state and hopefully people can see that now.

People are more liky to post something out of the ordinary online, than something which is an everyday occurrence.

An everyday occurrence, or not, it obviously wasn’t considered controversial. I doubt an Israeli soldier would film another Israeli soldier desecrating a religious statue, and then post it online, if there were any expectation that it would get him and his comrade into trouble. That indicates to me that they thought it was acceptable and would be viewed positively. And no doubt it was, among their target audience. Probably took them both by surprise that there’s been a fuss about it, and that only happened because Netanyahu suddenly realised it might upset his greatest source of support.

It's a long line of using social media like this. The pictures of IDF soldiers mocking Palestinian womens underwear was a low.

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't seem to see this at all.

I think the fact that Western governments support them and constantly turn a blind eye, ditto the Western media are both factors. Then there is the racism element. Many people just don't seem to care about lots of brown skinned people, far away dying.

I would be ok to discuss rest of world, but is that out of bounds as this board is limited by moderators to conflicts in the Middle East only?

So that is why the board and thread stay in the Middle East?

I like to think we all care about deaths everywhere in all conflicts, but naturally we tend to feel more emotion when the deaths happen within our own kinship groups. A study shows that how we think of kinship groups is in circles that go outwards - family, ville, region, nation, culture/religion.

Lebannon as a country concerns we Anglo-French a bit more because Lebannon was a French colony and we didn’t give it independence to end up being a battleground for terrorist Hezbollah or invaded and annexed by their neighbour.

I mean, as a Christian, it is desecration, and there’s an argument it’s blasphemy (though I tend to think you have to follow or have followed that faith for it to be blasphemous) but killing innocent people seems to me a much bigger problem.

I look forward to seeing disciplinary action taken against soldiers that do similar or worse things.

This is also my position as a Catholic, yes it should not have happened but after seeing the horrors and death inflicted on Palestinians and Lebanese people and their homelands over the past years is it really the cross to die on (pardon the pun).

When lives are worth less than a statue nobody is following any religions principles.

I agree about kinship groups, makes perfect evolutionary sense... I can understand why Christians in particular would be upset about this event...

However it doesn't really explain why so much more interest in these Christians than say for example the many Nigerian Christians being killed in the last few weeks by Islamist terrorists in Nigeria... no concern shown for them on here, despite their also brown skin colour- if there was a thread I missed it... there's something particular about this conflict that people just find so much more emotive than many others.

Wonder what it could be?

I agree about kinship groups, makes perfect evolutionary sense... I can understand why Christians in particular would be upset about this event...

Funnily enough, I'm a Christian and I'm not upset about it at all. Far worse happend to Jesus than someone taking a sledgehammer to his statue. Yes it's vandalism, yes it's disrespectful, yes he should face punishment for it. However, it's just a statue. What that soldier needs is for someone to sit down with him and ask why he did it, and for him to hear the gospel. Because he's targeted Jesus he must have issues that need to be addressed and answered. That's my response as a Christian. Not all Christians may agree, though, we're not an amorphous group.

I'm horrified by the Nigerians being slaughtered in their hundreds by Islamic terrorists, however, nowhere near enough is said about them.

I remember the 'graven image' stuff from Sunday school, and I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't have given a shit about his statue being vandalized.
100% agree about the troubles in Nigeria.

Wonder what it could be?
You've said this a few times just say what you want to say because we all know what you're implying.

I personally feel the IDF get away with horrific war crimes and I personally don't think any other democratic nations armed forces would, so I'm always amused when people claim the IDF are unfairly singled out when in my view it is the complete opposite. I'm also amused when they cite other atrocities to try and prove their point but it is often terrorist atrocities they're using in these examples not legitimate armed forces that are meant to follow specific codes of conduct.

The Nigerian government have started to convict the terrorists carrying out the murders in Nigeria, it's not enough and they need to go further to protect Christians, the ICC are watching it closely.

I think the situation in the ME gets far more press attention than for example the situation in Sudan, videos, articles, information etc are in peoples faces way more maybe thats why they get more attention/interest on places like MN?

I do think the constant exposure to the middle eastern conflict plays a part. But then I think perhaps that's a bit of a chicken and egg situation... are people so imterested because of the constant exposure? Or does the issue get constant exposure because so many are so interested? And its also by the absolute design of certain terrorist groups to keep the situation front and centre.

Oh Boola. I'll take you put of response detention to point out to you that I have already explicitly said that a lot of frequent posters on here exceptionalise Israel and the IDF despite the many other equally awful things happening all over the globe, and directly invited people to consider why that might be. Exceptionalising one race above all others, excessive negative focus and refusal to put things into correct context is racist. I've absolutely no problem naming it. I've had to confront it within myself and sometimes still have to, luckily I've got patient people around me.

Unsurprisingly it's very difficult to confront one's darker sides like this so I was attempting to take the gentler approach. No worries if it doesn't work either. Hopefully people will come to it when they are ready.

PS I also think you need to consider why you think democratic nations should be held to higher standards. Do those living under alternative systems of government not have morals? Are they somehow less to blame for their wrongs? Do you believe that non democratic nations don't have laws? Do you think that armies of non democratic countries who commit war crimes are somehow less to blame, and should not be held to account? Its nonsense.

I'll take you put of response detention
Seriously! more fool me thinking it was adults I was engaging with.

You've said a lot here and have made a whole lot of assumptions about people so I think I'll throw some back at you.

A lot of frequent posters on here exceptionalise Israel and the IDF despite the many other equally awful things happening all over the globe, and directly invited people to consider why that might be
A lot of frequent posters on a board titled conflict in the middle east are talking about the conflict in the middle east.... everyone on these boards no matter what their angle or side is here to discuss that. IMO there is nothing more controversial than that. There has been from time to time other threads looking at other global atrocities but people were in agreement so discussion ended. I think you are confusing online discussion boards with real life activism of which you haven't the first clue what people may or may not be engaged with so best not to make assumptions about one aspect of an individuals activity.

I would query why you seem to have an issue with people focusing on certain victims of atrocities and war crimes and not others. I would go as far as to suggest you actively attempt to deflect and constantly use whatabout tactics to steer discussion away. What is it about Palestinians in particular that you don't feel they're worthy of attention?

Exceptionalising one race above all others, excessive negative focus and refusal to put things into correct context is racist. I've absolutely no problem naming it. I've had to confront it within myself and sometimes still have to, luckily I've got patient people around me.
You can name it as you have done can you provide the evidence for it? I mean you're implying that half the posters here are racist so I think you need to be a bit more specific with that accusation. Are you suggesting those posting about the atrocities happening to Palestinians are racist or is it those constantly defending Israeli government and IDF actions are? I'm confused

PS I also think you need to consider why you think democratic nations should be held to higher standards. Do those living under alternative systems of government not have morals? Are they somehow less to blame for their wrongs? Do you believe that non democratic nations don't have laws?
I'm not talking about those under other government systems though am I? Every other area you said we should be looking at (as in anyone else but the IDF) are terrorists so no I don't hold terrorists to the same standards as state governments do you?

Do you think that armies of non democratic countries who commit war crimes are somehow less to blame, and should not be held to account? Its nonsense.
Yes this paragraph is nonsense because at no point have I said any of that have I? The majority of us don't hold oppressive regimes to the same standards as our own jurisdictions and neither do our governments which is why they get sanctioned and why we take in refugees experiencing these oppressions and why you are unlikely to see very many people defending them or condoning their behaviours. I expect all war criminals to be tried and convicted which is why I get infuriated with the exceptionalism the IDF enjoys in this respect. You're demonstrating it yourself by attempting to steer discussion away from them.