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Conflict in the Middle East
childlessbutconcerned · 21/04/2026 10:23

dairydebris · 21/04/2026 10:08

Of course. I unequivocally condemn all acts of abuse by military personnel against civilians in particular. I do so frequently on here. Do you think most people who post in defence of Israel / Jewish people on here condone the crimes of some Israelis and IDF in the WB? If so I've no idea why you think that, I've never once seen a poster condone it.

What is do see here is frequent exceptionalisation of the IDF- this thread is a great example. Literally every army ever destroys statues. It's rarely deemed worth a mention ( understandably I feel- who cares about a statue with all the other shit going on? I don't. )

Once again. If you care more about what the IDF is doing than what other soldiers all over the globe are doing, if you think of it often and post often in hatred of the IDF, Israelis, Zionists etc whatever you want to call it, if you have visceral feelings of hatred that you don't have for other groups committing similar or worse crimes, you may want to examine within yourself why this might be.

Out of curiosity, are you Christian?

OP posts:
MissyB1 · 21/04/2026 10:54

maudelovesharold · 21/04/2026 10:20

When the IDF investigates its own deviant behaviour, it usually ends up being completely exonerated. This will become a ‘non-incident’ in no time at all. Like so many others.

100% this.

TheKittenswithMittens · 21/04/2026 11:03

Why are we being set against each other so much these days?

GentleSheep · 21/04/2026 12:52

TheKittenswithMittens · 21/04/2026 11:03

Why are we being set against each other so much these days?

I could answer you that as a Christian but would you want to hear it?

Boolabus · 21/04/2026 13:59

quantumbutterfly · 21/04/2026 09:55

I really suspect that pp doesn't view this chap breaking a statue as representative of all IDF members or equivalent to the excesses of hamas, but your world view differs I guess.

Me and the poster I was responding to were not talking about the IDF soldier caught for breaking a statue of Jesus

quantumbutterfly · 21/04/2026 15:35

TheKittenswithMittens · 21/04/2026 11:03

Why are we being set against each other so much these days?

divide & conquer?

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 21/04/2026 16:42

childlessbutconcerned · 20/04/2026 12:36

No mention of the soldier being sacked?

@childlessbutconcerned , two soldiers have been imprisoned. That was swift and severe don’t you think?

Ihatetomatoes · 21/04/2026 17:01

Twiglets1 · 20/04/2026 13:11

I hope this reassures you a bit @childlessbutconcerned

Benjamin Netanyahu has rebuked the Israeli soldier who struck a fallen statue of Jesus Christ on the cross with a sledgehammer in southern Lebanon.

He wrote on X: “Yesterday, like the overwhelming majority of Israelis, I was stunned and saddened to learn that an IDF soldier damaged a Catholic religious icon in southern Lebanon.

“I condemn the act in the strongest terms. Military authorities are conducting a criminal probe of the matter and will take appropriately harsh disciplinary action against the offender.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/04/20/iran-war-latest-news-trump-strait-hormuz-cargo-ship/

I'm glad its being correctly condemned snd investigated.

Ihatetomatoes · 21/04/2026 17:05

dairydebris · 21/04/2026 10:08

Of course. I unequivocally condemn all acts of abuse by military personnel against civilians in particular. I do so frequently on here. Do you think most people who post in defence of Israel / Jewish people on here condone the crimes of some Israelis and IDF in the WB? If so I've no idea why you think that, I've never once seen a poster condone it.

What is do see here is frequent exceptionalisation of the IDF- this thread is a great example. Literally every army ever destroys statues. It's rarely deemed worth a mention ( understandably I feel- who cares about a statue with all the other shit going on? I don't. )

Once again. If you care more about what the IDF is doing than what other soldiers all over the globe are doing, if you think of it often and post often in hatred of the IDF, Israelis, Zionists etc whatever you want to call it, if you have visceral feelings of hatred that you don't have for other groups committing similar or worse crimes, you may want to examine within yourself why this might be.

Indeed. Interesting and spot on comment.

dairydebris · 21/04/2026 20:23

( You do understand what an army is for? Its literally for commiting organized and systematic violence. That's it's main job. That's what it's trained to do. )

So do you think the IDF are more organized and systematic in their violence than for example the armies at war in Sudan? The Russian army? The Al Qassam Brigades? The Tatmadaw? Have you read anything about the way these armies have operated in recent times?

If you single them out, then why? Don't just point me at articles about IDF abuses. I could equally point you to articles of abuses of other armies. I'm interested to know why you single out the IDF among all armies.

maudelovesharold · Yesterday 00:23

You do understand what an army is for? Its literally for commiting organized and systematic violence. That's it's main job. That's what it's trained to do.

Yes, against other armed combatants, not civilians. Armies should be trained to show restraint with the general population. This is a statue, but it is indicative of the total disregard for the civilians of the country and their culture

Sadly, it cannot be denied that most armies, including the British army, have been involved in some terrible atrocities against civilians, but the IDF seem to have a loathsome disregard for innocent civilians, and children in particular. They target innocent people and children and then justify it. In Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon… Read about the 2014 Gaza war beach bombings. The IDF deliberately targeted children, then denied it, and when investigated by their own military police, were cleared of any wrongdoing. It was an unavoidable mistake. No surprise there. Ask the Bakr boys (two 9 year olds, a 10 year old, and a 11 year old from the same family) why they think they were targeted and shelled while playing a game of football on the beach. Oh wait…you can’t, because they’re all dead. And this is the tip of a very bloody iceberg. Worldwide condemnation at the time, but the world does precisely nothing, then forgets, so here we are, with the IDF unchecked and untrammelled, and with the systemic belief that the people they are dealing with are lesser.

Ironic that the damage to the statue seems to have drawn Netanyahu to condemn the actions of the soldiers who did it, where dead children never have. I hope it wasn’t just because it was a Christian statue, with the risk of alienating some of Israel’s staunchest allies. I’m sure the IDF has desecrated many other religious monuments and artefacts along the way, as they have destroyed many many thousands of innocent lives.

rainingsnoring · Yesterday 01:36

MissyB1 · 20/04/2026 08:05

IDF always say “we will investigate and take appropriate action” yeah suuuure they will….
Harassment of Christians is on the rise in Israel.

Yes. I doubt the individual concerned will face much punishment.

It's a real shame that the IDF and more concerned about their ongoing genocide in Gaza and the current deliberate attacks on civilians in Lebanon, including paramedics trying to help the wounded. That's far, far more of a concern than the destruction of one religious statue, horrible though that is.

rainingsnoring · Yesterday 01:41

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LassiKopiano24 · Yesterday 05:32

I’m sure the IDF is only sorry the soldier got caught.

Twiglets1 · Yesterday 07:06

Two Israeli soldiers have been jailed for 30 days and removed from combat duty after a statue of Jesus was destroyed.

One of the IDF troops smashed the statue and the other took a picture of the incident as the army operated in the area of the Christian village of Debel.

Subsequently, a statement released by the IDF on Tuesday said an inquiry found another six soldiers were present at the scene and did not act to stop the incident or report it.

They have been summoned for "clarification discussions that will be held later on, after which further command-level measures will be determined", the IDF said.

"The inquiry determined that the soldiers' conduct completely deviated from IDF orders and values.

"The IDF expresses deep regret over the incident and emphasizes that its operations in Lebanon are directed solely against the Hezbollah terrorist organization and other terrorist groups, and not against Lebanese civilians."

According to a post on X, the IDF has now replaced the statue.

https://news.sky.com/story/two-israeli-soldiers-jailed-over-smashing-of-jesus-statue-in-lebanon-13534580

dairydebris · Yesterday 07:45

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I'm sorry you feel its 'whataboutery' and an attempt to distract. Its not. Its an attempt to put the violence and hatred into its correct context within human society.

The pp has a few times said they single out the IDF for their violence. I wanted to point out that the IDF are factually not unique in their violence. Armies by their very design train their recruits to other the enemy in order to kill them. They are composed of mainly young men pumped full of testosterone and bonded to their team in opposition to the other side. Every single race will have a % young men who are predisposed towards violence and every single war ever has resulted in cruelty towards and death of civilians. I'm not condoning it. I'm saying by the very nature of our species it's absolutely inevitable. Israelis are no different to any other race on this matter. So lets discuss the violence the IDF is meting out in the WB sure... but the second someone says the violence is unique to the IDF my hackles are raised.

You ask why I often post. I ask myself lots too. The answer is because of racism. My family is not white. Fighting against racism is of real utmost importance to me. The racism I see on here seems to me to be the last socially acceptable flavour of it- antisemitism. When one race is constantly demonized above all others I see racism. When I see frequent Holocaust Inversion I see racism. When I see language used specifically to generate hatred I see racism. When I see ignorance posing as self righteousness, and a refusal to deeply look at motivations- I see racism. And honestly it makes me really really angry.

FoxRedPuppy · Yesterday 07:47

Absolutely not defending this action, but armies of all countries contain soldiers (mostly men) who do awful things. And film them- the British Army has had a few. It’s now about how it is dealt with.

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · Yesterday 08:00

LassiKopiano24 · Yesterday 05:32

I’m sure the IDF is only sorry the soldier got caught.

@LassiKopiano24 , why do you say that?

Boolabus · Yesterday 08:05

FoxRedPuppy · Yesterday 07:47

Absolutely not defending this action, but armies of all countries contain soldiers (mostly men) who do awful things. And film them- the British Army has had a few. It’s now about how it is dealt with.

It’s now about how it is dealt with.
We have seen how it is dealt with and that's the issue. I am not talking about the desecrated statue I'm talking about the sexual assault and child sexual abuse. Nothing will be done because it is condoned and supported.

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2xrz71zm3o

FernandoSor · Yesterday 08:23

FloralDeerPattern · 20/04/2026 15:35

That's because his concern isn't real. He doesn't care about Christians and their statues. He is worried about losing US support and a lot of US support is rooted in Evangelical Christianity and for some reason they care more about a statues head being bashed in than they do people's heads being bashed in.

Saying whoopsie we will fix the statue is no loss to him, stopping the violence towards Christians in the West Bank would make it harder for that land to become Jewish which is his dream so obviously he isn't going to do that.

US Christians are finally waking up to the oppression of Christians in the occupied territories and now Lebanon. The reports of settler violence against Christians in the West Bank are horrifying. Iranian Christians have also been targeted, with St Nicholas Cathedral in Tehran having been bombed by US/Israel.

maudelovesharold · Yesterday 08:33

dairydebris · Yesterday 07:45

I'm sorry you feel its 'whataboutery' and an attempt to distract. Its not. Its an attempt to put the violence and hatred into its correct context within human society.

The pp has a few times said they single out the IDF for their violence. I wanted to point out that the IDF are factually not unique in their violence. Armies by their very design train their recruits to other the enemy in order to kill them. They are composed of mainly young men pumped full of testosterone and bonded to their team in opposition to the other side. Every single race will have a % young men who are predisposed towards violence and every single war ever has resulted in cruelty towards and death of civilians. I'm not condoning it. I'm saying by the very nature of our species it's absolutely inevitable. Israelis are no different to any other race on this matter. So lets discuss the violence the IDF is meting out in the WB sure... but the second someone says the violence is unique to the IDF my hackles are raised.

You ask why I often post. I ask myself lots too. The answer is because of racism. My family is not white. Fighting against racism is of real utmost importance to me. The racism I see on here seems to me to be the last socially acceptable flavour of it- antisemitism. When one race is constantly demonized above all others I see racism. When I see frequent Holocaust Inversion I see racism. When I see language used specifically to generate hatred I see racism. When I see ignorance posing as self righteousness, and a refusal to deeply look at motivations- I see racism. And honestly it makes me really really angry.

Do you not see any racism in the way that Palestinians are regarded and treated by the Israeli state and the IDF? I’m surprised, if you are so tuned in to the possibility.
Palestinians with Israeli citizenship living in Israel (about 2 million) are known as Arab citizens of Israel and are subject to a system of apartheid with their rights as citizens severely curtailed. Arabs are considered as ‘lesser’ and consistently treated as such in terms of land, healthcare, education…and as a consequence of this racism being systemic and enshrined in the Constitution, it is largely accepted by Israeli citizens.
This racism is also clearly demonstrated by the tacit approval from the Israeli Government of the frequent violent, sometimes murderous, incursions into Palestinian territory by Israeli settlers.to make ostensibly illegal land grabs. Where are the IDF then? They are supposed to be protecting the Palestinians who are living under military rule in the West Bank, but often assist the settlers. This is all out there. You can read about it.

dairydebris · Yesterday 08:58

maudelovesharold · Yesterday 08:33

Do you not see any racism in the way that Palestinians are regarded and treated by the Israeli state and the IDF? I’m surprised, if you are so tuned in to the possibility.
Palestinians with Israeli citizenship living in Israel (about 2 million) are known as Arab citizens of Israel and are subject to a system of apartheid with their rights as citizens severely curtailed. Arabs are considered as ‘lesser’ and consistently treated as such in terms of land, healthcare, education…and as a consequence of this racism being systemic and enshrined in the Constitution, it is largely accepted by Israeli citizens.
This racism is also clearly demonstrated by the tacit approval from the Israeli Government of the frequent violent, sometimes murderous, incursions into Palestinian territory by Israeli settlers.to make ostensibly illegal land grabs. Where are the IDF then? They are supposed to be protecting the Palestinians who are living under military rule in the West Bank, but often assist the settlers. This is all out there. You can read about it.

I know. Yes, I see it. And again, of course I do not condone it. I've spent time in Israel. I'm aware of the disparities of outcome- although I do not believe I would describe Israeli Arab situation as Apartheid and I don't believe you would either had you visited. I believe the religious supremacists currently whispering into BN's ear are the Jewish flavor of racists that unfortunately all societies have. The Stephen Yaxley-Lennon / KKK of the Israeli state. It's a feature not a bug of the human condition. I don't believe Israelis are unique in having a severe problem with supremacists too close to power. We should speak about it.

Would you expect the Israeli nation to have no racists? I wouldn't. Literally every nation on earth has them. Including us. I'm worried about the direction this country will take under Reform. We should speak about that too.

What I frequently object to is the exceptionalisation. That's why I commented on this thread if you look back. I object the minute someone says- counterfactually- Israel is uniquely evil, or singles them out in a disproportionate way.

LassiKopiano24 · Yesterday 09:16

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · Yesterday 08:00

@LassiKopiano24 , why do you say that?

Because it brings them shame, no doubt there are some decent honourable soldiers in the IDF, but in my opinion they don’t have the greatest of reputations

FloralDeerPattern · Yesterday 10:00

Boolabus · Yesterday 08:05

It’s now about how it is dealt with.
We have seen how it is dealt with and that's the issue. I am not talking about the desecrated statue I'm talking about the sexual assault and child sexual abuse. Nothing will be done because it is condoned and supported.

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2xrz71zm3o

It makes me really sad to see that Israel are taking the destruction of a statue more seriously than they take harm against Palestinians. It's like they are placing more value on an inanimate object than people. Shoot up a car with a happy family inside, kill mum, dad and 2 children, beat the surviving children and call your victims dogs - not even an investigation. Smash a statue - straight to jail.

A statue gets more justice from Israel than Palestinians. It's a very grim realisation.