IDF confirms authenticity of a photo of a soldier destroying a statute of Jesus Christ

[childlessbutconcerned]

https://x.com/idf/status/2045973415643767091?s=46

Disgraceful.

Every other area you said we should be looking at (as in anyone else but the IDF) are terrorists so no I don't hold terrorists to the same standards as state governments do you?

I'll just focus on this.

Yes. I hold all humans to the same standards. I don't believe anyone's violent actions towards other human beings is contingent firstly upon the system of power they live under. I believe humans have internal moral systems and that we all understand murder and violence towards innocent people is wrong.

Do you think an IDF soldier should be held more accountable for a murder than a Hamas terrorist?

Is a murder commited by a member of the IDF worse or better or exactly the same as a murder commited by a member of Boko Haram?

Do you think we should expect Israeli soldiers to be the most moral soldiers ever, or should we expect them to be more or less as prone to violence as soldiers everywhere in the world?

Do you believe soldiers serving in the IDF are uniquely violent and murderous towards Palestinians, more so than any other armed group in opposition to another group anywhere in the world?

Let's be clear I don't justify murder by anyone or to anyone I believe in law and order and retribution for anyone breaking it.

Do you think an IDF soldier should be held more accountable for a murder than a Hamas terrorist?
Is a murder commited by a member of the IDF worse or better or exactly the same as a murder commited by a member of Boko Haram?
Why are asking me this? where have I given you the impression that I think terrorists are less accountable than the IDF or any murder worse or better like wtf. It's the complete opposite I am arguing about. It is the IDF that ARE less accountable no ifs or buts they are it is a fact, they are literally getting away with murder, rape, child abuse, and Palestinians are completely defenceless in seeking any retribution for it they have zero rights when it comes to how they're being treated.

Do you think we should expect Israeli soldiers to be the most moral soldiers ever, or should we expect them to be more or less as prone to violence as soldiers everywhere in the world?
I expect the state and system to weed out and convict their bad apples but that's not what the problem is the issue is their actions are state sponsored and condoned. I have explained this to you a few times but you are not taking it on board at all. This is so much bigger than a few bad apples.

Do you believe soldiers serving in the IDF are uniquely violent and murderous towards Palestinians, more so than any other armed group in opposition to another group anywhere in the world?
See my answer above, the violence is endemic and ingrained in the institution and that's the problem

This board was set up in direct response to the conflict in Gaza and people here are acting surprised that it is mainly used to talk about the conflict in Gaza?!

I use forums where the news in general is spoken about to talk about things not covered on mumsnet. I don't derail threads calling people names and whining about the fact that people aren't talking about what I want to talk about. For instance I was involved in a discussion elsewhere about the 400 hostages that Boko Harem took the other day, I didn't seek out the hostage thread on this board and whine about the fact that people there weren't discussing it and imply all kinds of things about them because they discuss some hostages here but not others.

Do you believe soldiers serving in the IDF are uniquely violent and murderous towards Palestinians, more so than any other armed group in opposition to another group anywhere in the world?

So you think the IDF are in opposition to Palestinians, rather than Hamas? Yes, that’s exactly what it looks like, and absolutely why they demolished Gaza. That’s why people are incensed and horrified by this particular conflict, because it is largely being waged against unarmed civilians by one of the biggest military powers in the world. It’s because the IDF are trained to conduct themselves like brutal thugs, not because they happen to be Jewish. Any army behaving in such a way towards innocent civilians would attract the same condemnation, please don’t pretend otherwise.

'On the anti-Israel propaganda front, I think one of the main sources is Israel itself. Some of its actions certainly speak louder than words.'

Exactly. The actions and words of the Israeli government and the actions and words of the IDF speak far louder than anything else. Those trying to minimise their deliberate murders of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, deliberate destruction of civilian areas, deliberate murder of medical staff trying to assist the civilians and journalists trying to report on what they are doing are part of the problem.

Has anyone come across this recent murder of a Lebanese journalist. It has been nearly absent from Western MSM.

https://x.com/Hamza_a96/status/2047610050517041632

Honestly, there is no point in enaging with this poster. Whenever anyone criticises the actions of Israel and the IDF, across multiple threads, this poster posts Whataboutery in response. He/she has posted mutiple accusations of racism towards those who don't agree with her. Any explanations from other posters are ignored or partially ignored. If posters condemning the actions of Israel wrote posts like this, with these accusations, they would certainly have been deleted. There seems to be a one sided reporter on here who is offended when posters point out that Israel is committing a Genocide. Not only that, horrific as it is, they are dragging the whole world into a massive crisis, which is just starting to hit in other countries. Once 'The West' is hit, perhaps some people's opinions will change.

It's not true that dairy debris is a "one sided reporter on here who is offended when posters point out that Israel is committing a Genocide".

Several of us who defend Israel are offended by the constant barrage of misinformation and opinions dressed up as fact. For example, I have pointed out several times that there is no legal judgement yet whether Israel has committed a genocide or not. It is an allegation at the moment with an ongoing legal case being considered by the International Court of Justice.

Despite people often citing a UN commission of inquiry that concluded Israel had committed genocide, their opinion is just that - an opinion. The UN themselves acknowledge this by saying it's ultimately for the court to decide.

The UN says it cannot make a legal determination as to whether a situation constitutes genocide under international law. It says a situation is referred to as genocide only after a competent national or international court has declared it as such.

When asked by journalists on Tuesday if he would consider using the word genocide to describe Israel's actions in Gaza, UN human rights chief Volker Türk said: "It's for the court to decide whether it's genocide or not, and we see the evidence mounting."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8641wv0n4go

Her death was a disgrace, she received a death threat from Israel in 2024 and was killed by a drone attack (targeted). Ambulances were prevented for six hours from attending to her

The 9th journalist to die in Lebanon this year.
The Gaza Playbook is being repeated.

@Boolabus

"Why are asking me this? where have I given you the impression that I think terrorists are less accountable than the IDF or any murder worse or better like wtf. "

You did here-

"I don't hold terrorists to the same standards as state governments do you?"

Both direct quotes from you. Which one is it?

The relevance is not that I'm trying to defend IDF war crimes, the bit I'm trying to understand is why the disproportionate interest in IDF war crimes? If all crimes against humanity are equally awful as all races lives are equally valuable, then why the focus on IDF war crimes rather than say, Russian war crimes, American war crimes, Chinese ongoing genocide etc. I know you keep saying its whataboutery. But the question is relevant to me in the larger context of exceptionalising one race.

I appreciate many posters on here would rather keep their narrow focus rather than look at this conflict in a wider context. Thats your right. As it is my right to point out that to me it looks like racism.

Seems a bit of a weird vitriolic turnabout from thanking me for my last post. Where you asked me and I literally laid out my opinion.

For the final time. I'm not offended by criticism of Israel. I do it myself. See above, where I literally said its important we talk about the abuses of racist settlers in the WB and their tacit support by the IDF and many, many other posts.

I am offended by people who exceptionalise the violence of the IDF as though it is unique to the Israeli forces, as this as an untruth easily seen by even a cursory glance at world events.

Oh and by the way, when the West is hit? You think we haven't been hit in recent years by racist ideology? Who's racist ideology has it been?

I'll leave you to it for today.

You did here-

"I don't hold terrorists to the same standards as state governments do you?"

Nope. You asked the following:

Do you think an IDF soldier should be held more accountable for a murder than a Hamas terrorist?
Standards and accountable are completely different words with different meanings. A terrorist is so called because they have not the same standards as state armed forces or democratic governments otherwise they would not be called terrorists there would be no distinction would there? Honestly this is getting ridiculous now.

The relevance is not that I'm trying to defend IDF war crimes, the bit I'm trying to understand is why the disproportionate interest in IDF war crimes?
This has been answered numerous times so no need to keep asking the same question over and over.

As it is my right to point out that to me it looks like racism.
So once again you are calling posters racist for highlighting IDF war crimes. I would suggest your constant attempts to not talk about IDF war crimes on a board on the CITME which was set up to talk initially about the Israeli Gaza conflict is racist and dehumanising towards Palestinians.

Ps Russia/ US/ China war crimes are discussed and Russia has been heavily sanctioned and like Netanyahu has been charged with crimes against humanity. I also remember the massive outrage when the abuse of prisoners at abu ghraib prison were uncovered with US soldiers charged, court martialed, and some imprisoned. No such retribution for IDF soldiers because they are continually exceptionalised

You are right @rainingsnoring best not to engage.

Horrific how she was hounded and killed like that and then medical help denied, evil behaviour.

The Gaza Playbook is being repeated.
Agree

Honestly, I would rather that they destroy statues than kill innocent civilians.

Completely agree but there's only a public outcry and punishment for destroying statues it seems......

Absolutely.

A statue doesn't need its parents to collect it's body parts .

That's just not true is it? There has been a huge public outcry both against Hamas attacks on 7/10/23 and against Israel's response to Hamas attacks on 7/10/23.

Look at how many millions of words have been said about both on MN alone, let alone everywhere else.

It's just horrific. As you say, there have been multiple other deliberate assassinations of journalists. I hope people engage with the Channel 4 documentary that is mentioned in the tweet.

There is nowhere near enough outcry from Western 'leaders' about this, with the exception of the Spanish PM.
There is a massive public outcry about it though. The Israeli lobby seem to have lost public support in the US but they still have a massive influence over the political system as they donate lots of $$$$ to multiple politicians. The US government are totally ignoring the majority of their voters when they join Israel in starting illegal wars. It is shocking how undemocratic the whole thing is.

Ok public outcry but no punishment as we saw with the soldier that destroyed the statue

Hopefully, it's definitely one to watch.

How brave was she to continue reporting the facts after the threat knowing what Israel has done to journalists. Unfortunately it cost her her life ultimately.

That's right. What an admirable woman. At least in her own country, she was widely respected and admired.

For me, it is the fact Lebanon was our colony so we have many French there and many Lebanese here in France. I think it a fair question about Nigeria because that was a British colony at one time? I think the lack of caring might be due to the UK swinging right and the anti-immigrant comments that are common there now which are overtly racist. They don’t feel any kinship with Nigerians.

Exceptionalising one race is racist agree 190%

The IDF consisted of 80% Jewish and 20% nonJewish recruits. It has Jews, Muslims and Christians serving in its ranks. It is mandatory for all Isrsaeli citizen Druze and Circassans as well as Jews to serve.

Many others volunteer. The IDF is multiethnic and multi religion.

Why are you conflating harsh criticism of the actions of an ethnically diverse army with exceptionalising one race?

Yes, I believe too it is the training and the lack of discipline.
An army is as moral or immoral as its leadership directs or allows.