Anti semitism - Bondi beach - when will it stop?

[mids2019]

Thoughts and prayers to those killed and injured in Australia.

I had hoped I had copied the actual video but it was not to be.

For anyone wondering what I tried to include, it is a short clip of the ' Crowd at Bondi vigil join together to sing ‘Waltzing Matilda’ with David Campbell.'

This was beautiful

https://news.sky.com/story/bondi-beach-victims-honoured-by-lifeguards-who-saw-what-few-people-have-ever-seen-13485854

It was the British, Americans and Russians that killed, injured and starved Germans in their millions all because of a minority of Nazi extremists.

It was the British, Americans and Russians that killed, injured and starved Japanese in their millions all because of a minority of extremists.

It was the UN that killed, injured and starved Koreans in their millions all because of a minority of Communist extremists.

Such is the horrific and brutal nature of war.

I fully understand this on an emotional level the death of women and children is a tragedy to witness. But on a logical level this is what happens in war. The only way the deaths of Palestinian women and children could have been avoided would have been for Israel to accept the deaths of their women and children and further deaths in the future and not have retaliated. No country in the world would have done this.

Best post @1dayatatime ♥️

I could watch it from the link you posted, very moving.

You highlight the link and from that you can watch the YouTube clip x

@Twiglets1

Thank you for the information.

It came up on my Facebook feed today, well actually several versions came up over the day.

I found it very moving, esp when Matilda's Mum and Dad had a little dance during it.

Excellent post @1dayatatime

I fully understand this on an emotional level the death of women and children is a tragedy to witness. But on a logical level this is what happens in war. The only way the deaths of Palestinian women and children could have been avoided would have been for Israel to accept the deaths of their women and children and further deaths in the future and not have retaliated. No country in the world would have done this.

The only thing to add to this is that the number of Gazan casualties/deaths would have been much, much lower if Hamas had not chosen a conflict strategy that exposed them to as much danger as possible so that they could exploit the results for propaganda purposes.

I’m not sure the rest of the world sees it quite like that though unfortunately for Israel. Not that the behaviour of the Israeli government will ever be an excuse for the increase in antisemitism around the world.

At least you accept fully what the Palestinians have been through, although see it that Israel had no choice. There are posters who are pro-Israeli but are prepared to also say that war crimes have been committed in an unjustified manner. I am not sure you would agree with them though?

I don’t think using other atrocities to justify this one makes the point you want it to.

Besides if your argument is that the lives of those peoples were expendable because their governments were the aggressors you still seem to have missed the fact that it is Israel who has been the aggressor. Even if you gloss over 1948 and the injustice of partition you still have to accept that it is Israel who has killed far more Palestinians than vice versa and who has been engaging in illegal occupation since 1967.

For the sake of both Palestinians and Israelis, the illegal occupation needs to stop and a solution found that is just for both sides.

Just to bring it back to the topic of the terror attack at Bondi which is how this thread started

I'm not sure how many posters here are in Australia but I am.
This event is a turning point, politically and socially.
Ordinary people who don't pay much attention to the news, including what's going on in Gaza, are furious (I know this becausethey talk aboutit in person, it'snot just social media)
Fair or not, this is seen as a profound failure of governments to keep people safe and keep this country free of irrelevant sectarian feuds happening in remote parts of the world.
The politicians who "get it" are unreservedly apologising. The ones who don't are not-pologising and deflecting to talk about guns and "hate of all kinds" etc. The PMs approval rating dived this week. The Jewish former Treasurer, a very moderate conservative, tore strips off him last week and made an extremely moving speech about what it's like to be Jewish in today's Australia.

The public is not stupid. People want to hear political leaders commit to clamping down on antisemitic speech and behaviour which has been rampant here for 2 years.
Ordinary people don't give a shit about debating the morality of Netanyahu's actions, and rightly see that as totally irrelevant to the safety of Australians, especially Jewish Australians.

There is no patience for influencers bleating about how they can't "criticise Ira-hell" any more: ordinary people know that you can still criticise Israel's military campaign. You just can't call Israelis Nazis, evil baby eaters, bloodthirsty etc with no consequences. Any more than you can call Indonesians or Indians vile slurs.
And you can't say "the hamas boys did us proud" like lauren dubois did.

Yes I can understand this. It’s a while to the next election isn’t it? Do you think Albanese is secure in his position?

It's not due until 2028 but we don't have fixed terms for federal elections, the PM can call it sooner.
I think he's probably secure, as the Labor party changed the rules after all the bullshit between Rudd and Gillard to make it harder to depose the leader. But if the leader's unpopular enough and it's dragging down the party, it's not hard to force them out. And there is a massive backbench who would lose seats with any kind of swing against the government, and this is really the opposition's first chance at connecting with mainstream voters since the last election.
Albo is a good politician and he's good at leading the Labor party (which is no mean feat) but I actually don't think he has what it takes to lead the nation. Usually the Australian PM doesn't have to do much of that, it's all about good government, but there are times like this when it's called for and he's failed badly.

Thank you. Glad to see you bring it back to the topic of the thread. Too much whataboutery, deflection and excuses for terrorism.

"Fair or not, this is seen as a profound failure of governments to keep people safe and keep this country free of irrelevant sectarian feuds happening in remote parts of the world.
The politicians who "get it" are unreservedly apologising. The ones who don't are not-pologising and deflecting to talk about guns and "hate of all kinds" etc."

This. It is a profound failure. The 'what about' type of chatting stops the problems with anti semitism which are huge, being sorted.

And shows up the British Government and police for the cowards that they are. Two people died in the Manchester synagogue attack and there's been no action taken to stop antisemitism here. Kids can't go to school without fear; synagogues have rotas of members as security; many people are scared to show they are Jewish by wearing even a Star of David etc
What do we do to effect the change needed in our country to stamp out antisemitism?

Its awful. Its skirted around or ignored. Just like the grooming gangs were.

I’m not surprised Australians are blunter in demanding that the primary reason of is to ensure safety of citizens as @Manova14pp.

We don’t have that same normalisation of security.

I find it appalling to hear on this board that Jewish communities have had to organise their own security for community events. The risk appears constantly present but how do you assess if it sufficiently high to justify police presence, particularly when you don’t want to hinder frequent communal gatherings. Governments need to give the message that no antisemitism will be tolerated.

There will have to be acceptance though that valid criticism of Israel is not antisemitism but language must be used responsibly. Governments should also be able give this message.

The difficulty for some is that any criticism of Israel is seen as antisemitic, that Israel is unjustifiably judged. I am not sure that helps deal with the issue of antisemitism- as it leads to silos, where extremism is more likely to find a place.

That's good to hear.
In the UK I've been aware of the undercurrent of antisemitism since the 90's, it's insidious and has been largely ignored by government. The explosion of hate we saw after 7/10 should have been a bucket of cold water but there's too much complacency here, and weak leadership. Our national psyche is as quick to react as an oil tanker and sometimes feels like it's heading for the rocks.

Play another record, we've heard this one.

If protesters and activists lack the skills and intelligence to criticise the Israeli government and the war without vilifying and threatening Israelis and Jewish people, they should probably shut up about a very complex issue.

@Manova14 I just looked up Lauren Dubois, fucksake I really wish I hadn't 😩

I really like the internet for disposing of the traditional gatekeepers of information, the old boys' network of publishers and powerful agencies. Now we can all express what we like and have it shared globally within a millisecond. I just wish people with 3 brain cells were somehow excluded, although I realise that kind of authoritarian censorship would sort of put the clock back to darker times!!!

I think Australia is a much less complex society than the UK, far less important a country, so much smaller in population, so much less connected to anything, it's far easier to make changes. Our politicians are very slick animals and they react fast to public sentiment.
Also such a lala land that's been very safe most of history, people have very low tolerance for violence and unrest.

It’s also sovereign in terms of a court system which means policies can just react pretty quickly to the electorate.

She is disgusting. The other worst offenders are Clementine Ford and Constance Hall. None of them could've pointed to Israel or Gaza on a map on 6/10/23. Their followers are so stupid they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

This guy explains clearly how antisemitic some "I'm just criticising Israel!" commentary actually is.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/australias-social-media-war-against-jews/

Jesus that's terrifying

A WhatsApp group operating under the title of Jewish Creatives and Academics with about 600 Australian artists, writers, actors, and the like formed organically in the wake of October 7. I was one of them. Initially it formed as a support group for traumatised Jews seeking solace and comfort. This soon morphed into activism and discussions about how to respond to the sudden surge in antisemitism, particularly in the Australian arts and LGBTQ communities.

Eventually a mole within the group leaked the WhatsApp discussion thread to anti-Israel/Pro-Palestinian social media influencers. Just over a week ago the names of those 600 Australian Jews were drawn up into a list and published online as an excel spreadsheet along with photos of at least 100 of the group under the title “Z600”, the ‘Z’ being short for Zionist and which prominent Australian feminist commentator Clementine Ford urged her followers to view. The excel spreadsheet contained all manner of details, LinkedIn links, where they were employed, what job they did. In one post, urging people to download the list of those ordinary Australian Jews they were described as having “colonial and genocidal goals…Nazi behaviour”.

The last time a list of Jews was drawn up and published was the 1930s and 40s in Germany and for this to happen today in Australia and to a community with among the largest concentrations of Holocaust survivors in the world is particularly triggering for many. Jews in Australia are now the hunted online with hundreds now deactivating social media accounts and removing photos online of family and friends for fear of being targeted. Imagine that, Jews going into hiding in Australia. Of all places. Already Jewish businesses have been attacked, ugly emails and text messages sent and Police are investigating death threats to some of those on the published WhatsApp Z600 list.

This also rings a bell in the UK/on MN:
There’s a large cohort of women between the 20s and 40s posting and sharing like material many of whom had clearly never taken prior interest, at least not via their Instagram account, in any other world conflicts.