Reconstruction of Gaza - realistic?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj41y42qxq8o

I think the problem with the below is the mammoth coast and the problem of who pays. To build a city of the size of Birmingham from scratch including public infrastructure to a sufficient standard using non slave Labour is going to be astronomical. Who pays? All the Arab states (although some with concentrated extreme wealth) have their own domestic pressures without stumping up hundreds of billions to produce a new sixth state. There could be international loans but that would bring into question Gazan public debt and how loans could be repaid.

There is also the thorny question about how Gazans go about establishing legal ownership of land or whether they need to buy it again. It seems like a conveyincing nightmare. One solution would be to build identical properties and allocate them the to the populace as a whole but would Gazans want this form of communism in terms of property? If you do have a housing market how do establish a realistic economy to support it?

International aid is extremely stressed and certainly as a UK tax payer I would hope we wouldn't get to involved and as Gazan reconstruction is talked about we should be conscious of the levels of poverty in other regions of the world.

Who do western countries silence in relation to Israel and palestine?

Francesca Albanese has had her assets frozen by the US

Is that a no then? You don't see the difference between the two situations, one the government doesn't support and sanctions and the other where the government provides arms and military support and slaps them on the back and calls them a friend?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/24/university-professors-discipline-palestine-support

Also don't forget that to allow their occupation of Afghanistan to carry on undeterred the American and British forces chose to look the other way as the people they supported to rule Afghanistan sexually abused young boys in the sick "tradition" known as "bacha bazi". Even going as far to dismiss an American Soldier who heard a child being abused and beat up his Afghani abuser (with the dismissal only being reversed after public backlash):

https://eu.fayobserver.com/story/news/military/2016/04/29/green-beret-s-career-saved/22323908007/

https://publications.armywarcollege.edu/News/Display/Article/4129311/soldiering-and-silences-witnessing-child-sexual-abuse-in-afghanistan/

Selective morality.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/germanys-shrinking-space-for-artists-who-support-palestine/

@SharonEllis plenty of people

”But Germany is not alone. As this piece from Index on Censorship notes, pro-Palestinian views are also being censored in other countries too. It quotes a statement from Artists for Palestine UK, signed by more than 1000 cultural figures, “which cites no fewer than 18 separate examples of artists allegedly being censored as a result of expressing support or solidarity with Palestinians, or simply by being Palestinian themselves, in light of the ongoing conflict.”
Attempts to quell protests and free speech in the arts and other spheres of life are also taking place in many European countries and, of course in Israel and in the United States too.

Ah the Livingstone formulation!

No facts

I really have no idea how your mind works @Everexpanding I didn't see any posts about Nigel Farage on here. But I was just now discussing Farage's grotesque comments with my daughter. I think he's an odious piece of shit so it doesn't remotely surprise me. I will always express my horror at antisemitism wherever I find it.

good we have finally found something we can agree on, I too think Farage is an odious piece of shit, and undoubtedly anti semitic unlike the many decent people horrified by civilian deaths on here, who have been told that to raise criticism of Israel or suggest they should be sanctioned or boycotted for their crimes means they are anti semites

Why did you think I wouldn't condemn Farage's antisemitism?

Posters on here who have consistently defended Israel’s decimation of Gaza and shown zero compassion for the desperate plight of Gazans are suddenly very eager that they should have self determination when it comes to leaving Gaza. Why is that?

This.

I agree with much of this but we have to make a stand against the extremes humanely.

Mocking the plight of refugees?

just to clarify

I cant imagine who youre referring to here?

I've constantly said Palestinians deserve the right to self determination in a state of their own, in the area they are in. Its the only solution.

Their right to self determination doesn't trump anyone else's right not to be murdered while going about their daily life though, and vv.

I do find it deeply disturbing that given the utter hellhole that is Gaza, and given that it's going to get significantly worse before it gets better, to prevent anyone who wishes to leave and has the means to leave from doing so to make a political point would be morally wrong.

As I frequently think on here, some posters are happy to use Palestinian struggles to make political points- and that seems to count as compassion for Palestinian lives. This moral outrage and some people making it out of Gaza is just one example. The thread where it was suggested that the rate of Palestinian pregnancy was due to Israeli rape was another- absolutely ignoring the awfully high rate of marital violence in Palestine to make a political point at the expense of Palestinian women's truth.

I hope those people that made it out get some joy back into their lives. The last few years must have been unbearable.

Their right to self determination doesn't trump anyone else's right not to be murdered while going about their daily life though, and vv.

I have to say it's such a pity that people don't feel this way about Israel too. If Western governments would have taken a stand against Israel doing this years ago and stopped arming and instead sanctioned them then the situation wouldn't have deteriorated to what it is today. As ever though it is one rule for Palestinians and another for Israelis.

Of course people feel that way about Israel too. Do you honestly think that people who post in support of Israel believe that Israel has the right to kill with impunity, and that Israel is unique amoung all nations in this world with the right to do so?

Any country invaded and subjected to a murderous killing spree as 7 October was, would have reacted by waging war upon those who commited it- and pledged to continue committing it. Wars have historically been started for much much less reason. Look at the US after 9/11. It was a horrific provocation and Hamas knew that. And Hamas could have surrendered themselves and the hostages at any point and stopped the killing much, much earlier.

If the US stopped supplying Iron Dome rockets then many, many Israelis would have been killed while going about their daily lives. Would you want that? So no, we can't stop arming them.

Please try to think a little bit deeper than beyond the slogans. This isnt Viz.

Yes it’s very interesting in the genetics of the Jewish people and how very far back they have been on that land.
I don’t know why people keep repeating the lie on here when it’s quite clearly known that what they are saying is a lie. It makes the rest of what they are saying dubious and shows some sort of bias.

I absolutely do think that Western governments believe that. For decades Israel have been killing Palestinians as they go about their daily lives, children playing football on the beach, children hanging out washing on their roof, children sitting at their school desks. There is no but Hamas in this, this has been happening for decades and nothing has been done. People killed with impunity year after year after year using their right to self determination as an excuse for their continual killings of innocent people.

Please try to be a little less patronising. It’s particularly cringey when it’s aimed at a poster who is so well informed and clearly far from skating on the surface of this debate.

Agree 👍🏻

Well according to Trump, phase 2 of the peace plan is about to commence within a "few days". The main problem with the reconstruction of Gaza remains that no one will pay for it until Hamas agree to disarm which they still refuse to do. The Egyptian plan puts the cost of reconstruction at $53bn; the UN estimates it at $70bn.

So how do we think reconstruction can commence with Hamas still armed & dangerous on their side of the line? There are only two options that I can see: end the ceasefire and carry on fighting Hamas or begin reconstruction on the Israeli side of the yellow line. I know many people will find both options unpalatable but no country has expressed any desire to fund the reconstruction until Hamas disarm. And no country seems willing to send their own troops to disarm Hamas either.

According to The Economist, "money is the biggest obstacle" to the reconstruction of Gaza and "no one in the Arab world is eager to join". Hence the talk of an alternative.

Instead of rebuilding Gaza’s existing cities, which are near the coast, some Americans and Israelis hope to start reconstruction on Israeli-controlled territory. They would probably begin near Rafah, in southern Gaza, where Israel holds the largest chunk of land. The idea is to build a string of modular towns: each would house thousands of Palestinians and include clinics, schools and other services.

As the Economist points out however: The scheme has echoes of failed initiatives tried in other counter-insurgencies, from Afghanistan in the 2000s to Vietnam in the 1960s. It seems unlikely to work in Gaza either. Only a few thousand Palestinians live on the Israeli side of the line (many are members of Israeli-backed militias). Even if others could be convinced to move, Israel would have to vet them; it is unclear if they would then be allowed to return, or to move freely on the Israeli side.

If Hamas really cared about the people of Gaza, now would be the time to disarm so the whole of Gaza could be rebuilt. Maybe that's where some of the protests and political pressure could be aimed? Just a thought.

www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2025/11/12/gazas-zombie-ceasefire