Reconstruction of Gaza - realistic?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj41y42qxq8o

I think the problem with the below is the mammoth coast and the problem of who pays. To build a city of the size of Birmingham from scratch including public infrastructure to a sufficient standard using non slave Labour is going to be astronomical. Who pays? All the Arab states (although some with concentrated extreme wealth) have their own domestic pressures without stumping up hundreds of billions to produce a new sixth state. There could be international loans but that would bring into question Gazan public debt and how loans could be repaid.

There is also the thorny question about how Gazans go about establishing legal ownership of land or whether they need to buy it again. It seems like a conveyincing nightmare. One solution would be to build identical properties and allocate them the to the populace as a whole but would Gazans want this form of communism in terms of property? If you do have a housing market how do establish a realistic economy to support it?

International aid is extremely stressed and certainly as a UK tax payer I would hope we wouldn't get to involved and as Gazan reconstruction is talked about we should be conscious of the levels of poverty in other regions of the world.

We’re not discussing vultures but the very real problem of who is going to rebuild Gaza - someone will have to.

Don’t you want other countries to help with the reconstruction of Gaza? I agree that Trumps “Gaza Riviera” was horrible but there are other countries that have their own proposals like the Egyptian plan.

The country that obliterated it should pay. Obviously.

Israel and America but they won’t because no one starts a genocide with the intention to ‘re-build’ anything for the indigenous population of a land they’ve so desperately been after since 1947.

Ethnic cleansing is still being carried out with impunity - there are no Hamas tunnels in the West Bank so what is the excuse there?

Gaza was razed to the ground to erase Gazans. Colonial expansionist land grabbing in Palestine continues.

Any discussion of rebuilding in this context will be vultural.

I think the problem with the scale of investment is that western countries would probably be the ones in the position to develop. I wonder if poorer Arab countries such as Egypt and Jordan will come out with appropriate rhetoric but at the end of the day like so much in this world it's down to ££. So much of Gaza was slim like that you are not rebuilding like for like but effectively creating brand new houses and flats instead of very poorly constructed refugee camp style builidings.

For an educated work force to form the back home of the Gazan economy you will have to give thought about schooling and higher education in neighbouring countries and maybe we will see this. (Again there is the cost).

Again to rebuild Gaza seems like a charitable excecise on an unfeasible scale as you can see the difficulty in loans and if foreign investors were to buy land the question then becomes who from? You would need an exercise in property law for a country with effectively no law to allow ownership to be established amongst Gazans.

Maybe there will after all become a humanitarian argument to manage voluntary migration for some time with right to return?

So why did Israel withdraw from Gaza in 2005? Give up land as part of the Oslo Accords or Sinai in 1979? If Israel had wanted to they could have taken more land instead of withdrawing as part of peace deals on several occasions.

These claims just don't stand up to scrutiny.

It isn’t obvious at all.

It’s a point of view but it’s also a point of view that Israel didn’t ask to be attacked on 7/10/23. And if they hadn’t been, Gaza would still be as it was on that date.

Thats why opinions differ as to who is ultimately responsible for the destruction of Gaza. To some people, Hamas were the aggressors. Though it’s certainly unusual to pick a fight with an enemy so much stronger than yourself for obvious reasons.

Maybe there will after all become a humanitarian argument to manage voluntary migration for some time with right to return

@mids2019 I have seen you argue for voluntary migration across many threads, could you explain what does it look like to you?. Who will take the 2 million impoverished refugees and house and feed them until an unknown date in the future when they can return?

I hope Western countries don’t get involved as it would only be taken as oppression or worse.

And to be honest, there is something unpalatable about rich Western countries rebuilding Gaza for a big profit- which is the only way investors would be prepared to take the huge risk involved.

There are rich countries in the Middle East that could afford it like the UAE & Qatar, and I think the optics would look better. Those who are sheltering Hamas could start with freezing their bank accounts and taking that money for reconstruction. Doubt ME countries would be doing it without intending to make a big profit either.

As it stands Hamas is still in Gaza and the closest thing they have to a government. Historically every bit of aid, building materials etc would be diverted into propping up Hamas, building tunnels and the like. Understandably this scares away pretty much every sensible potential investor.

In terms of migration I was thinking hope for future generations. Yes, the right of return needs to be managed but if it can be a mass movement of young people to countries which can provide at least healthcare and education may be appropriate.

Just to clarify are you saying that the actual current population would be able to return in a few years to housing and infrastructure built for them or is it something that would be an ideal in the future?

And where would they go in the meantime that would finance the huge cost?

Ive never understood this about war. How a place bombed into obliteration, recovers to a habitable state....

You think israel is not capable of playing the long game? Pull out of Gaza, isolate it totally, finance a corrupt violent government and have them vilified internationally, ‘mow the grass’ regularly to encourage hatred, then wait; or even worse; for the opportunity to go in and destroy the entire place in order to ethnically cleanse and call it ‘encouraging voluntary emigration’, a term they didn’t invent. This isn’t a plan that was simply devised in 2005, this is just the latest iteration of Plan Dalet and israel’s evil intention to eventually realising greater israel. I sincerely hope that they have miscalculated this time and the entire world will now see israel for what it is, a rogue, terrorist, pariah state that will eventually be totally isolated internationally.

It is hard to imagine.

But cities like Dresden have managed to recover and the centre of Dresden was almost completely destroyed by Allied bombing in WW2.

I’m wondering whether some people know what the word investment means! An investor invests for the sake of making a profit. You seriously think anyone is going to ‘invest’ in Gaza to give the property to Gazans to live in because they certainly won’t be able to afford to buy it. Anyone investing in Gaza is going to be selling to soulless ghouls who don’t care that an entire people have been wiped out and the property they’ve bought is built on the bones of murdered children.

Israel "played the long game" by withdrawing completely from Gaza in 2005... right.

Of course Hamas could have "played the long game" too by actually choosing to spend all the millions received in aid to, I don't know, help local people build good lives. Instead they wasted most of it on planning more hate filled attacks like 7/10 ....building tunnels, buying weapons, etc.

Obsessing over Israel's "evil intention" while letting Hamas off the hook completely sounds like an unhealthy fixation on one country to me. The whole world doesn't see things as single-mindedly as that, thank goodness.

I'm a realist. How are you supposed to develop an open air prison under an air, sea and land blockade when the prison guards regularly mow the grass as they have admitted on so many occasions.

Yes I know investors expect a profit but what's the alternative? No one invest in Gaza?

Even if you're right and Israel are forced to make reparations, Gaza will still need investment from other countries. In all the various schemes about how Gaza can be rebuilt, there isn't one that says, "let Israel do it all".

So Hamas had no choice but to spend most of the aid money on building their own ranks and planning more violence?

They made their choices and this is the result.

Anyway, this thread is about the future and the reconstruction of Gaza so I don't want to divert from that.

As I said, all talk of rebuilding Gaza for the Palestinians is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. The only investment will be to build an israeli riviera.

Could you explain how a state can be evil? You might think ndividuals elected to power are 'evil' though its pretty extreme. But how can a state be evil?

What part of Hamas being a corrupt violent government did you not understand. They were financially supported by Israel as a puppet to sow discord and chaos.

That's a very depressing opinion which I don't agree with but time will tell I guess which countries are involved in the rebuilding of Gaza and how it looks in 20 years time.