Reconstruction of Gaza - realistic?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj41y42qxq8o

I think the problem with the below is the mammoth coast and the problem of who pays. To build a city of the size of Birmingham from scratch including public infrastructure to a sufficient standard using non slave Labour is going to be astronomical. Who pays? All the Arab states (although some with concentrated extreme wealth) have their own domestic pressures without stumping up hundreds of billions to produce a new sixth state. There could be international loans but that would bring into question Gazan public debt and how loans could be repaid.

There is also the thorny question about how Gazans go about establishing legal ownership of land or whether they need to buy it again. It seems like a conveyincing nightmare. One solution would be to build identical properties and allocate them the to the populace as a whole but would Gazans want this form of communism in terms of property? If you do have a housing market how do establish a realistic economy to support it?

International aid is extremely stressed and certainly as a UK tax payer I would hope we wouldn't get to involved and as Gazan reconstruction is talked about we should be conscious of the levels of poverty in other regions of the world.

It was very wrong whatever the circumstances which are still unknown and being investigated.

Shows how desperate they were to leave though. Gazans said they paid $2,000 per seat to fly their families to South Africa, according to Reuters.

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gazans-say-they-paid-2000-per-seat-flight-south-africa-2025-11-17/

@Twiglets1 @SharonEllis so what you are saying is that despite Israel deliberately and systematically demolishing Gaza, rendering it unliveable, they should take no responsibility for looking after the civilians, but other countries, who had nothing to do with the destruction, take on the responsibility. That sounds totally reasonable and fair. What would be fair, if this was actually a war about Hamas and the hostages and not about ethnically cleansing Gaza, would be to remove the illegal settlements in the West bank and let the Gazans move there temporarily.

You put words into my mouth that I would never say so unless you can frame things differently, we can't debate.

More likely friends and family of Hamas making their way out of Gaza as part of a non publicized deal.

As if Israel is going to charter planes to take each and every Gazan out of Gaza 150 at a time. 🙄

Given the choice between Gaza and South Africa I'd choose SA every time and so would you.

By all means we can say who would prefer to leave because of the current conditions than stay, if you prefer that use of language. The main thing is that we recognise they ought to be asked.

It has no impact whatsoever on my point, which is that there are Gazans who fall into the former rather than the latter group, that I don't think they're going to get that opportunity, and that they are equally fucked over by this regardless of whether or not the countries denying them the opportunity are conveniently claiming high minded reasons for doing so or not.

You seem to have an inside scoop that no one else does! Where on earth did you find that news? Or are you just assuming? You know what that does!

I apologise if I rephrased it incorrectly but what I got from your post is that other countries should take responsibility for the Palestinians even though it was Israel that actually demolished Gaza. If that's not what you said, please correct me.

It’s Al Jazeera, but…….

Al Jazeera has unearthed new evidence connecting the group organising the transfer of Palestinians to an Israeli-Estonian man, Tomer Lind, who has ties to the Israeli government.

No, not assuming, just a guess, haven't read it anywhere.

A guess, an assumption. Same, same.

Nope. A guess is purely my speculation based on my knowledge. I don't think I'm right. Its a guess.

An assumption would be something I believe to be correct despite not having proof. Implies a confidence I am not claiming to have.

Different, different.

Well if we are guessing, then my guess would be that it was possibly a trial run. 2 planes over a couple of weeks, forced displacement of a few hundred Palestinians at least. Unfortunately South Africa have said they won’t take any more in. Where next, I wonder?

Rwanda perhaps? 😵‍💫

I didn't say that other countries "should" take responsibility for the Palestinians.

What I actually said to you was You are very free with other peoples money if you think countries should pay to start rebuilding Gaza while the IDF is still bombing underground tunnels so the devastation to Gaza continues.

It is largely the Gazans own leaders that have caused this mess by starting a war with Israel, so my personal opinion is that Hamas should have all their money and assets frozen for a start. They can take some responsibility for the rebuilding of Gaza because other countries will only do it if there is something in it for them financially speaking.

No country seems keen to take Gazan refugees which is somewhat understandable to me because of the militant threat amongst men of fighting age.

I am not doubting that a significant portion of the population would now want to leave. They are human after all and need an environment which can support life, something Israel has ensured that Gaza can't anymore. A lot will choose to try and stay, knowing full well that leaving would be a one way ticket forever. There will be many who will have decided that it is now the end of their country which has been permanently colonised by foreigners. Better to eke out an existence as refugees in a foreign country than continue to endure the hell that Israel has wrought upon them and will continue to do so if they don't leave.

I missed this- thanks @Twiglets1

Hope these people can make a new life for themselves away from the hellscape of Gaza. It's certainly what I'd want for my family...

Is it ethnic cleansing of they wanted to leave and paid a substantial amount to do so?

I'd say No but interested in other peoples opinions?

Why does it make sense for the countries who advocated for peace to pay for the destruction caused by trigger happy countries like the UK and Germany? Hey guys we didn't listen you and helped kill, maím and destroy and left a heck of a mess behind because you guys asked us repeatedly not to do this so we think you should help our victims?! Or what exactly is it that leads you to think peaceful countries should pay for the destruction caused by war mongering Western countries rather than have the countries who happily contributed to the death and destruction help their own victims?

Whos more responsibile for the destruction of Gaza in your opinion? The UK and the US, or Hamas?

That's the post I was referring to. Are you saying that in the first line of that post you are not saying other countries should take the Palestinians because that's how I read it.

Just to be clear here, are you saying Israel totally destroying Gaza simply encouraged the Palestinians to voluntarily emigrate and therefore it's not ethnic cleansing.

Against my better judgement I'll just say this to you. Read my post. I said what I said. It doesn't seem to me like families paying 2k per ticket to leave a hellscape of their own choice is ethnic cleansing, no. I asked for other peoples opinions too as its obviously not that clear cut in this case. Instead of putting words into other peoples mouths why dont you just share what you think? Then others can discuss.

Clear cut examples would be the of the Muslim Bosnians. The rural Kurds of Saddams Anfal campaign. Putting people on buses / trains then shipping them off elsewhere to be dumped or murdered. These people paid for a ticket and chose to leave. Good Luck to them, I'd do same. Its not clear cut and I'd be interested in other peoples opinions on this. Not yours though, I can guess yours well enough.

By saying all the countries in the world and you think it's reasonable that Israel should be the one to take Gazan Palestinian refugees? no I'm not saying that other countries necessarily should take the Palestinians if they don't want to. I don't think it's reasonable to tell any country that they have to take refugees.

Just that the suggestion that Israel should be made to do so is particularly wrong in my opinion, given that a lot of these Palestinians apparently still support 7/10 according to polls.

I'm going out now so leaving this thread.

Just wanted to leave a last post saying it doesn't seem like ethnic cleaning to me either if people want to leave and are paying a lot of money to do so and also if they have the ability to return which according to the peace plan they can.

I think all of those are more responsible than Spain, Norway and Ireland who have consistently advocated for peace which is why I find it surprising that that poster believes that the peaceful countries should be the ones to help the victims of more warmongering ones. If those countries step in the is no disincentive to stop those countries killing innocent people in the middle east again, make them pay for the damage they have caused and maybe(not very likely but we can hope) they will think twice before causing so much death and destruction next time. Do this with every conflict like Sudan too and perhaps we will see actual adherence to International law rather than the money over morals approach that these countries currently have when it comes to arms sales.

You bomb people’s homes, murder their families and then say they want to leave “voluntarily” whatever way you wash it, this is ethnic cleansing.

Netanyahu in May 2025 said "We are destroying more and more houses [in Gaza] so the Palestinians will have nowhere to return,"adding that the "only inevitable outcome will be the wish of Gazans to emigrate outside of the Gaza Strip".

Also in May 2025 Smotrich expressed that his goal was for Palestinians to be "totally despairing, understanding that there is no hope and nothing to look for in Gaza, and will be looking for relocation to begin a new life in other places".

Some other Israeli ministers and public figures endorsing ethnic cleansing:

"Gaza won't return to what it was before. There will be no Hamas. We will eliminate everything." 9 October 2023, Israeli Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant

"We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba." November 2023, Israeli Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter

“Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948” Arial Kallner Israeli government minister

“Those are animals, they have no right to exist. I am not debating the way it will happen, but they need to be exterminated”
&
“This [attack] is not enough, there should be more, there should be no limits to the response, I said it a million times, until we see hundreds of thousands fleeing Gaza, the IDF has not achieved its mission” Minister of Education Yoav Kitsch

“Erase Gaza. Nothing else will satisfy us. It is not acceptable that we maintain a terrorist authority next to Israel. Don't leave a child there expel everyone."
&
"Gaza must be burned" & "there are no innocent civilians there"
Deputy speaker of Israel’s Knesset, Nissim Vaturi

”Gaza needs to be smaller at the end of the war.” former Minister for Justice, Gideon Sa’ar

“Bring down buildings!! Bomb without distinction!! Stop with this impotence. You have ability. There is worldwide legitimacy! Flatten Gaza. Without mercy! This time, there is no room for mercy!” Revital Tali Gotliv

"One of the options is to drop an atomic bomb on Gaza. I pray & hope for their [hostages] return, but there is also a price in war," Amichai Eliyahu, Israeli Minister of Heritage