How will carrying out "powerful strikes " on Gaza help to get the bodies back?

[mouthpipette]

BN has resumed the attack on Gaza, surely finding bodies is easier when you are not being bombed, shelled, shot at and starved.

Israel has controlled Gaza's borders, airspace, maritime space, population, buffer zone for decades. Since 1988 I believe.

Israel has maintained a blockade around Gaza since 2005 that controls all movement of people and goods in and out.

The blockade is widely recognised as a form of collective punishment - a war crime.

This is before we even talk about the Israeli settlements, settler violence, restrictions on freedom of movement; the confiscation of land; demolition of homes and infrastructure; arbitrary detention, torture and inhumane treatment.

The list goes on.

You say Hamas is a Government? Of which country? Is Gaza a country?

Does it have autonomy? No it's doesn't it's an excessively controlled patch of land dominated by Israel.

What do I think should happen? I'm in agreement with the majority (157 out of 193) of United Nations members that recognise Palestine as a sovereign state.

This would mean Israel would have no legitimate authority to maintain it's control of Gaza and the West Bank.

The international community would then have to step in to rebuild what Israel has tried to destroy.

Hamas has been allowed to grow in power in Gaza by funding arranged by Israel.

So no, Hamas is not good for Palestinians - that's why Israel ensured it stayed in power.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl

Many Israeli's directly blame this funding for the Hamas attacks on October 7th.

Why has all that happened though?

You seem to be missing out a big piece of the story there, like why was the PLO formed while Gaza and the West Bank was illegally occupied by Egypt and Jordan. Just that kind of gives the game away. Have you read the original PLO Charter?

Why was there a war in 1948 and 1967?

Why wasn’t a Palestinian State declared between 1948 and 1967?

How did Israel come to occupy Gaza and the West Bank and what sovereign State did it ‘steal’ them from?

Why was a blockade put in place by Egypt in 2007?

Your opinion can’t be obfuscated by facts I’m afraid.

So you want Hamas to continue governing Gaza as a Sovereign State because they show no signs (see the mass executions) of giving way to a governing party who actually want to rule in the best interests of Palestinians, eg, not wanting them to be killed as human sacrifices for their cause of the annihilation of Israel at the very least.

Who in the International Community will rebuild Gaza while Hamas is still in control?

Gaza could hardly be described as a ‘ghetto’ not matter how delusional you have to be to describe it as such.

Where is Egypt’s culpability in this false allegration?

It was quite a jewel of the Mediterranean with luxury mansions, car showrooms, restaurants and beautiful beaches. Many people lived in poverty but that was down to their corrupt government (and yes they voted in their own government) who siphoned billions of $ of aid to their personal wealth.

I don’t believe Palestinians in Gaza have been used as forced labour for Israel and Gaza isn’t even in Israel so why would they have the same rights as Israel citizens?

Perhaps the decades of, and commitment to, terrorism in the cause of the annihilation of Israel has caused their troubles?

Did Jews in Europe commit terrorist attacks before they were rounded up into ghettos?

What a disgusting Holocaust Inversion trope.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/28/mass-killings-reported-el-fasher-sudan-paramilitary-group-rapid-support-forces?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Killing other people’s children because you haven’t got your own dead relative’s body back? Justified because
Hamas is evil? Don’t think so.

Hamas is the cancer.

Hamas have blatantly failed to keep to the ceasefire agreement and that is what is putting Palestinians in Gaza more at risk than anything.

And your tone is disrespectful to the relatives of the dead hostage you refer to. It isn't their fault Hamas decided to play silly games with the remains, or that Netanyahu decided to order a retaliation.

And Israel have also violated the ceasefire pretty much from day one. But we could argue all day long about who broke it first. But please tell us why the problems with returning dead bodies of the hostages (whether it is deliberate or not) justifies Israel killing more innocent civilians? Are you in favour of Israel dishing out more collective punishment?

I had to look up the origin of ghetto. In 1500s Venice, Jews were forced by law to live on a specific island, the ‘ghetto Nuevo’ (new foundry).

Re Palestinians living in Israel: you now have very strong views on a group that a few posts ago you seemed not to know existed.

Here’s a fairly balanced article for you. Arab Israelis are slightly poorer than Jewish Israelis on average, and the two groups tend to live in different places (less so as time goes on though). To say they are treated like Jews were in Nazi Europe is a gross overreach.

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel

Your original gotcha was “do Palestinians live in Israel?” and it fell pretty flat because the answer is “yes, millions do”.

So now my turn: do Jews live in Iraq, Egypt, Gaza, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Lebanon? (I could go on)

Why not? When did that happen and how?

Oh come off it.Once again the Israelis are murdering innocent civilians. The other side behaving badly can’t justify this slaughter.

I did ask you yesterday not to tag me again.

But will make an exception for this post just to confirm to others that no I am not in favour of collective punishment and have never said innocent civilians should be killed. My anger is purely aimed at Hamas, who knew they were risking the ceasefire with their antics. There is video evidence of them staging yesterday's dead hostage return and it was pretty obviously a deliberate provocation.

The Red Cross have distanced themselves from it and issued a statement saying that the video of Hamas staging the discovery of a hostage's body in front of Red Cross volunteers was "unacceptable."

"It is unacceptable that a staged recovery of hostages has occurred, especially when so much depends on the existence of this agreement and so many families are still anxiously waiting for information about their loved ones."

You make horrible assumptions about other people's views as shown in the above post which is exactly why I no longer wish to engage with you on threads.

My 10 year old is interested to know what kind of vacuum Hamas exists in that it may do the awful things it does yet still not be held accountable for the consequences of their actions by the Mums of mumsnet.

Why come off it to to show some respect for the relatives of this dead hostage - aren't they innocent civilians too?

I was disappointed to see the the retaliation authorised by Netanyahu yesterday and publicly endorsed by Trump today, and hope the ceasefire begins again today and the airstrikes stop.

But it was somewhat inevitable that there would eventually be a military response if Hamas wouldn't lie low after the ceasefire and be seen to be doing everything they could in good faith to return the dead hostages.

They sound intelligent - it's a conundrum really with no good answer but definitely a good question.

Hmm. I would rather let go of having a dead body returned than see more children murdered.

Well, might it not have just been simpler to return the dead body you were already holding- to the family to whom it's of utmost importance to- and avoid and more death entirely?

Israel killed 22 children last night, no justification

Again, it wasn't the relatives choice.

And it's a lot more nuanced than the way you present it. If we are talking about what we would rather see, wouldn't we rather see a dead hostage treated with respect and not used in some sort of twisted game to get a gotcha on Israel that led to more bloodshed of innocent people.

Anything to say about the dead hostage release show?

The Red Cross have taken a stand (highly unusual for them as they try hard to appear neutral) and made a statement that the "return of remains to loved ones must not be politicized."

Yup, lots of they couldn't even wait 2 weeks to resume the killing. Netanyahu's actions have associated those supporting his actions inside and outside of Israel with a barbarity which will not be forgotten nor forgiven for generations.

And Hamas are blameless, fluffy, righteous freedom fighters who's actions have no consequences in your narrative because Israel is the big bad meanie and is to blame for absolutely everything ever, yes yes we know.

So you keep saying about Israel's actions in the war but I think that represents your own views more than a realistic likelihood.

Germany's actions in 2 world wars have largely been forgiven even by those who actively fought them at the time like the UK so I think you're wrong about people not being able to move on after wars end.