Gaza Flotilla - genuine peace activists or Hamas puppets?

[TicklishMauveSquid]

It has been reported that these activists have rejected the Italian government and the Vatican's proposal to unload any aid they are carrying in Cyprus, to be transferred peacefully to Gaza.

They seem intent on sailing into a legal blockade in a warzone as a direct provocation to Israel who will be forced to take control of 50 boats and the people on them.

They have made lots of unproven allegations that Israel has attacked their boats which may well be to precursor violent resistance in 'self defence'.

They could be carrying anything, including weapons.

There is quite compelling evidence of Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood connections to this so called humanitarian flotilla, which could be considered perverse in the extreme seeing as Hamas has caused the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

https://govextra.gov.il/mda/march-to-gaza/the-hidden-networks-behind-the-global-sumud-flotilla

Hundreds of Israeli boat owners are being encouraged to counter protest in Navy approved zones (without interfering) as a presence 'a blue and white wall for the hostages'.

What do we think the outcome of this will be with Italian and Spanish Navy vessels in the mix?

This is quite a different situation than the ONE boat in the earlier failed attempt to breach the blockade this year where the 'activists' were peacefully appeased with sandwiches and sent on their way (after refusing to watch footage of Oct 7th).

What, other than talking about it? Writing about it? Protesting about it? Documentaries about it? Theres quite obviously many ways to draw attention to it. Did you know about it before this flutilla? I did. So did lots of other people commenting on it on here.

There's literally not one argument in favour of this flutilla that stands up to any critical thinking whatsoever.

All it is is another focus point for criticism of Israel, and a chance for those people on the boats to feel important.

Do you know what I think would be good to see? Greta and a load of her friends shouting from the rooftops for Hamas to surrender, no Palestine until Hamas is gone, free Gaza from Hamas, Hamas please fuck off forever etc. Anything like that.

Why dont we see that? Thats what would actually help Palestinian Gazans most of all isnt it?

I was well aware long before the futilla! What an odd idea that noone had previously noticed.

@DontReinMeIn. The only way? So Greta releasing an interview saying ‘her life is at risk’ is the only way? Really?

The presence of Greta and other celebrities is not just to draw attention to The situation in Gaza but also to prevent Israel repeating it’s actions in 2010 when

Six civilian ships of the Gaza Freedom Flotillawere raided by Israel on 31 May 2010 in international waters in the Mediterranean Sea. Nine of the flotilla passengers were killed during the raid, with 30 wounded (including one who later died of his wounds

According to a United Nations Human Rights Council report, all activist deaths were caused by gunshots, and "the circumstances of the killing of at least six of the passengers were in a manner consistent with an extra-legal, arbitrary and summary execution."[10]

All of those things too. Talking about it, writing about it, taking to the streets about it, making posts on social media, Hollywood pledges, Sport’s actions, Eurovision boycotts. All pieces of a puzzle that have contributed to and will continue to contribute to putting pressure on the US, the international community at large and Israel itself.

Alone each action is small but together they make a difference.

The flotilla want aid let into Gaza, they are unarmed and harmless. Why would you be against them.

Did you similarly dismiss the movement against Apartheid in South Africa? Did you tell each person that their actions were futile? Did you make jokes and laugh about them?

Perhaps its the hypocrisy.

Sailing into a war zone in order to say something that can be said without sailing into a war zone. Sailing into a war zone knowing full well you expect to be saved from said war zone by the very people you profess to be protesting against.

Greta is fully expecting to be rescued from a very dangerous situation by Israel. And she's going to criticize Israel the whole way through, all the while depending on them.

It's idiotic.

That’s how I feel tbh as well as it WILL be down to Israel to sort it out when things go wrong and external pressure from governments will be directed at Israel as…. Well you know…. Hamas etc?

Also @Everexpanding she has literally done the same thing fairly recently and been deported, made constant comments about being followed ‘things are going to happen’ etc which have been found to be untrue eg Tunisia so I imagine Israel will do exactly what it did last time…. Feed them and deport them.

“Saved” Would you just stop.

They’ll predictably over react and send the IDF. their war ships and their weapons to intimidate unarmed people carrying aid to a population that is starving. They could have sent two coast guards the last time but no, always have to show the military strength

The Israeli administration are leaning in to this global isolation. Netanyahu has basically given the world the two fingers. I’d be more concerned about that if you care about Israel, not some idealists in wooden boats carrying flipping baby formula.

OK, you got me, you're right I'm way more concerned about lots of other aspects of this war, but this is a thread about Greta. You asked a question, I answered. I give a shit about the bombing, Gazans starving, the rise of antisemitism in the UK, the hostages trapped and in mortal danger in tunnels, the settlers and the religious nutjobs backing them, and the apparent lack still, after all these years, of any moderate, capable leadership for the Palestinian nation.

The Flutilla is a stupid little sideshow. I give a limited little tiny shit about some celebrities inserting themselves into this in the most futile manner. They are not helping anyone.

You have conveniently missed out that the people killed were on ONE ship, the Turkish backed Mavi Marmara which wasn't actually carrying any aid but was carrying camouflage netting bound for Hamas. No one was harmed on the other five.

It was on that ship, carrying 600 passengers, that the 'peaceful activists' attacked the soldiers legally boarding the ship, cutting descent ropes, throwing soldiers over deck and attacking them with knives, metal poles, and chairs and they also seized guns from injured soldiers. The ship's captain said the guns taken from the soldiers were thrown overboard before the ship was fully boarded so it makes you wonder if there was 'friendly fire' between the activists in the chaos.

Apparently 7 of 9 men killed had expressed wishes to die as martyrs.

7 soldiers were injured, 2 seriously.

The UN report actually refers to the ships railings being cut off with power saws in preparation for the 'peaceful resistance', admits that the soldiers were attacked and the soldiers guns were seized but still called it 'disproportionate force'.

This is what I find so interesting in this conflict. People make claims as in your post deliberately omitting pretty pertinent information to completely manipulate the facts.

Otherwise known as PROPAGANDA.

I genuinely hope this flotilla doesn't try to replicate the same FAFO method as the 'peaceful activists' of the Mavi Marmara.

So are you saying those aboard deserved to die? The un disagrees, there was global condemnation at the time, and Israel paid compensation.

”There were several probes into the incident. A UNHRC report in September 2010 deemed the raid illegal and stated that Israel's actions were "disproportionate" and "betrayed an unacceptable level of brutality", with evidence of "wilful killing". United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon announced a parallel probe in August 2010 by a four-member panel headed by Geoffrey Palmer. The Palmer report was published in September 2011 and also concluded that the raid was illegal.[14][15] The report stated that the degree of force used against the Mavi Marmara was "excessive and unreasonable",[16] and that the way Israel treated detained crew members violated international human rights law.[16] In response to the raid, Israel offered Turkey $20 million in compensation,[17] which was discussed in March 2013,[18][19] with an agreement finalized in June 2016.“

glad you know better than experts

The armchair soldiers are out in force today! If you read any international newspapers, the Flotilla crew is comprised of politicians, lawyers, medics, journalists, humanitarians, poets, authors, environmentalists and so on. A highly educated bunch who spend their days working for a variety of causes a much better use of time than defending genocide online.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ceq2zy4n8d0o

Now you resort to pathetic statements such as I think they deserved to die.

I find this so interesting as well. It is a ploy to shut down anyone who doesn't agree that Israel and the IDF are evil, bloodthirsty, monsters. Anyone who disagrees is just the same as them. Sadly some people actually buy into this and believe it themselves.

Of course the soldiers should have just let themselves be attacked and killed which is basically the view the UN seems to hold if you look back at all the resolutions they have made against Israel.

Also what is this nonsense about the IDF “legally” boarding ships in international waters - Israel has a habit of claiming territory that does not belong to it but the clue is in the description “international waters” - ie the IDF have NO legal right to board anyone’s vessels. It does not belong to you, but I know that concept holds no weight in Israel.

As many have pointed out Israel also have NO legal right to block aid entering Gaza. The IDF do not own Gaza or the water surrounding it or did God promise them the seas too?

You can’t board a boat in international waters with guns and claim to be a victim. For a heavily armed and well trained army the IDF claim victimhood after attacking others A LOT!

It is nonsense. The IDF illegally boarded a ship, they filmed some of it but somehow stopped recording before opening fire and brutally murdering the crew. But they are victims because the crew fought back. Ridiculous! It’s like men who beat their wives to death and claim they were the victims.

@koalaKoKoit’s a shame when we are having a respectful discussion you have to do that. ‘Did God promise them the seas too’? Would you be so quick to talk about Allah like that? What do you want posters to say?

it is very hard to reply to posters who are spreading misinformation, mocking people who want to try to stop the starvation of a civilian population and dehumanising Palestinians, civilly
I am not saying you have done these things but plenty have on here .
I will take rudeness over genocide denial always

There's some posters on here who its absolutely not worth attempting to interact with at all.

It’s not respectful to accuse peace activists who have spent their lives dedicated to helping others terrorists, I would call it disrespectful!

It is not respectful to claim rights over international waters. It is not respectful to drop incendiary devices on ships in international waters. It is also not respectful to bomb children, starve children, dismember children. Genocide, also not respectful.

Also I don’t care what you say about God - no skin of my back - if there is a God I don’t think he/she would be a massive fan of genocide!

@Everexpandingthough I think Trump is a power hungry orange buffoon I do believe he has some sway over Netanyahu and I am taking comfort from the news flash that has just been on. I believe diplomacy is the answer.

I am not mocking anyone. My family have been under constant rocket fire since before Oct 7th. Nerves and emotions are at rock bottom. No one I know wants this to continue. There are regular attacks on citizens- normal people- real terrorism on a day to day basis.

Do I think this will work? No. Am I worried what will happen to them? Yes. But they know in advance as this is a path Greta has already sailed and it is not the answer. Israel would be help responsible either way if they were harmed. I am sure Israel has thought about that.

I stopped posting on these threads for a long time as it made me feel quite mentally unwell. I was attacked both openly and in messages. I just think we can be respectful. I am not dehumanising anyone. I am well aware of the toll this is taking.

@KoalaKoKoits not respectful to take children hostage and murder them.
it’s not respectful to attack whole families unarmed.
its not respectful to behead people.
To film people in their last moments whilst you torment them.
To rape, to destroy, to mock, to parade bodies.
To hold people hostage and pay to terrorise.

Don’t talk to me about ‘ disrespect’ Works both ways.

I feel physically ill ( no exaggeration) when I see Trump and Netanyahu together, god knows what those two disgusting sociopaths have planned for Gaza, I sincerely hope I am proven

Wrong

A peace deal by the looks of it? I don’t see a problem with peace and the plan seems pretty robust: lots of Arab countries played a role.

why wouldn’t that be a good thing?

Well Oct 7 worked out well for Hamas didn’t it? A genocide against their people, their capabilities crushed, and finally a real estate deal between Netanyahu and Trump, backed by Qatar who have grown sick of them. Will they learn? I expect not