Gaza Flotilla - genuine peace activists or Hamas puppets?

[TicklishMauveSquid]

It has been reported that these activists have rejected the Italian government and the Vatican's proposal to unload any aid they are carrying in Cyprus, to be transferred peacefully to Gaza.

They seem intent on sailing into a legal blockade in a warzone as a direct provocation to Israel who will be forced to take control of 50 boats and the people on them.

They have made lots of unproven allegations that Israel has attacked their boats which may well be to precursor violent resistance in 'self defence'.

They could be carrying anything, including weapons.

There is quite compelling evidence of Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood connections to this so called humanitarian flotilla, which could be considered perverse in the extreme seeing as Hamas has caused the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

https://govextra.gov.il/mda/march-to-gaza/the-hidden-networks-behind-the-global-sumud-flotilla

Hundreds of Israeli boat owners are being encouraged to counter protest in Navy approved zones (without interfering) as a presence 'a blue and white wall for the hostages'.

What do we think the outcome of this will be with Italian and Spanish Navy vessels in the mix?

This is quite a different situation than the ONE boat in the earlier failed attempt to breach the blockade this year where the 'activists' were peacefully appeased with sandwiches and sent on their way (after refusing to watch footage of Oct 7th).

I have. Are you trying to insinuate that the mere pointing out of facts is now antisemitism?

You can lead a horse to water Sharon, but you cannot make him drink.

Going back to the original post…

I knew a guy who organised a boat to bring aid to Gaza some years back. He was an absolute fucking narcissist in the true sense of the word. I noticed he popped up frequently on TV news when the Grenfell Fire happened, being interviewed as a ‘community organiser’ despite his only link to the area being that one of his various children’s mothers lived around there. Always some human tragedy being used to get him his limelight….

Exactly the image that is in my mind!

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.

No, It's not wrong to criticize Israel if you hold other countries up to the same standard.

So for example, since dawn Israel have killed 29 people in airstrikes on a refugee camps. A 2 and a half month old baby also died of malnutrition. I think most of us would criticize any country that did this.

But are people criticising others for the horrors going on in other countries? They are not.

Don’t you watch the news? Sudan has been on most nights and the UAE was heavily critised.

I don't know what circles you move in but they are talking about them and as @itsnotveryfriendlyhereisit it's on the news nightly. 4 people were killed in a Russian drone attack last night including a 12 year old girl.

It's just that most people are on the same page regarding these atrocities and the perpetrators so there is no need for longs threads debating the nuances.

Yes? If you want to start your own threads about these atrocities please do.

But Israel don’t get a blanket approval for doing whatever they want because of the religion of the citizens.

If you genuinely think that pointing out a fact is antisemitism you are beyond help.

I am very much against Israel withholding humanitarian aid and have said so many times, especially when they paused it for several months.

Of course it's not antisemitic just to criticise Israel's actions in this war. Nearly all the people who post on MN in support of Israel have at times expressed criticism of certain things, whether it's the shortage of humanitarian aid, Netanyahu himself, the illegal Settlers or, as in my case, all three of those.

But some people already held antisemitic views against Israel before 7/10 (some people even celebrated 7/10) and now seem to be enjoying the opportunity to express their views freely. We see them exaggerating and sharing misinformation. People on the pro Israel side are more likely to keep to the facts because we didn't already hold very negative feelings towards Israel before 7/10 so we see things in a more balanced way.

While I want the people of Gaza to receive more humanitarian aid, this isn't about that. This is a performative act whether you think it's for good reasons (raising awareness) or negative ones (virtue signalling & narcissism). The amount of aid on board is symbolic only, most people understand by now.

It's just quite concerning that there are still some people naïve enough to believe that the aim of the flotilla is just to deliver humanitarian aid.

Agree @Twiglets1

Also a bit concerned that Greta the Great has shown such contempt for Israel (e.g. refusing to watch the film) that it would not surprise me in the least if her ludicrous plan involved more than just delivering a few biscuits.

She and her futilla cannot be treated as harmless, and Hamas can exploit the resulting distractions. They will certainly be looking to maximise propaganda potential from the whole exercise.

She is Hamas's wet dream: someone with a strong anti-Israel ideology, taking part in a disruptive and potentially threatening exercise, who can be presented as an innocent young girl.

I agree that her refusing to watch the film showed her true colours and that she is not trying to reach Gaza with a humanitarian agenda but rather an anti Israel one. I certainly don't see her as harmless anymore - I did with her first attempt until we found out that she refused to watch the film about 7/10. That showed she has no interest in gaining information about what triggered the war or to gain any empathy about what Israelis may be feeling.

Yes she is a poster girl for Hamas now.

She has gone from an "innocent young girl" who people listened to because it seemed that she had one obsession which was climate change, to an adult who will divide opinion and be judged as a political activist.

Reading this thread makes two quotes of anti Nazi dissident Dietrich Bonhoeffer come to mind he was executed for speaking out,( he should have looked at all the other wars and just shut up following the logic of some on here ) maybe he was an attention seeking narcissist???

“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil:
Not to speak is to speak.
Not to act is to act.”

And this

Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease.

Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental.
In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for when dealing with a stupid person than with a malicious one.

Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison

Really apt quotes here. Thankyou for them.

Dietrich would be absolutely nodding along with you with regards to this stupid Futilla.

"Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease."

It's like he predicted Hamas and their supporters.

Thanks for making it clear where you sit

65,000 dead is evil , more than 20,000 dead children is evil
Starving a civilian population is evil
i think we all know where Bonhoeffer would sit

“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil:
Not to speak is to speak.
Not to act is to act.”

Bonhoeffer was a commited anti Nazi, and a Christian, who spent some time in a concentration camp, and who absolutely understood the use of force was sometimes necessary to defeat evil.

He would have been on the side of whoever was attempting to defeat Hamas, the modern day Nazis who are still trying to get rid of Jews, and do so by murdering them indiscriminately.

He served the congregation of Zions Church for God's sake.

Thanks again for the apt quotes.

Totally agree.

You're really quite fun today ☺️

oh stop it 😂

Even if Greta doesn’t think she has an ego, she does. A lot of people think because they’re well read or respected in one area, this extends to every single area that takes their fancy.