Gaza Flotilla - genuine peace activists or Hamas puppets?

[TicklishMauveSquid]

It has been reported that these activists have rejected the Italian government and the Vatican's proposal to unload any aid they are carrying in Cyprus, to be transferred peacefully to Gaza.

They seem intent on sailing into a legal blockade in a warzone as a direct provocation to Israel who will be forced to take control of 50 boats and the people on them.

They have made lots of unproven allegations that Israel has attacked their boats which may well be to precursor violent resistance in 'self defence'.

They could be carrying anything, including weapons.

There is quite compelling evidence of Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood connections to this so called humanitarian flotilla, which could be considered perverse in the extreme seeing as Hamas has caused the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

https://govextra.gov.il/mda/march-to-gaza/the-hidden-networks-behind-the-global-sumud-flotilla

Hundreds of Israeli boat owners are being encouraged to counter protest in Navy approved zones (without interfering) as a presence 'a blue and white wall for the hostages'.

What do we think the outcome of this will be with Italian and Spanish Navy vessels in the mix?

This is quite a different situation than the ONE boat in the earlier failed attempt to breach the blockade this year where the 'activists' were peacefully appeased with sandwiches and sent on their way (after refusing to watch footage of Oct 7th).

So nothing in the last 9 years but Greta & co decide now is the right time to start protesting about the issue again. And won’t even take a few days pause during a highly sensitive moment re the peace plan.

Taken in conjunction with her refusal to watch the footage of 7/10 despite caring enough about the war to make protesting it her full time job makes me draw my own conclusions about her anti Jewish sentiment bias. If she was neutral she would want to understand both sides in the conflict, including Netanyahu’s motivation for trying to destroy Hamas.

But you were so positive about the airdrops? Better than nothing I think you said.

I’m not grasping what is dangerous about non violent protest actions. If the whole world stuck to non violent actions to make their point, wouldn’t we all be much better off.

Highlighting the illegal blockade through peaceful means is not Hate.

Yes I said they were better than nothing.

I think you were amongst those arguing they were pointless as the amount of aid was small - yet now you are suggesting the aid on board the flotillas is not that insignificant and comparing it to aid drops.

And I’m not saying being on the flotillas is dangerous. The biggest risk they face is seasickness as far as I can tell. It’s other people saying they are in danger.

Is your real issue the significant shift in tone from international governments about this flotilla compared to previous ones?

I’m struggling to understand the hatred towards it. I really am.

They are pointless for avoiding thousands of deaths from starvation and it is also very clear that the amount of aid on board is not going to avert a famine. It’s been perfectly clear to me that the flotilla is primarily a protest not aid delivery.

“Other people”

Like all these governments making statements asking that Israel abide by international law and act with proportionality?

I am not a Zionist in that I feel the way Israel was created was barbaric and wrong but I also do not want to see it dismantled or jews deported

Then you’re a Zionist as you acknowledge the state of Israel and do not want it returned to the ownership of Palestinians. It’s that simple. You are the enemy, to Hamas, and a wide number of Palestine ‘supporters’.

I don’t think many people understand the extreme ideology they are inadvertently championing. You can’t be a moderate supporter, that’s not how it works.

I don’t know what you mean by my “real issue”.

My opinion is that the futillas are at best pointless and at worst giving anti Israel people another excuse to incite tension which isn’t helpful at this sensitive time when we should all be hoping for peace in Gaza.

Other people saying the people on the flotilla were in danger from the IDF.

I don’t think they were, based on what we know happened with Greta's last flotilla - do you?

A motley crew of unarmed activists aren’t threatening peace.

What incites tensions is Netanyahu insisting that that the IDF will remain in parts of Gaza and that Israel will forcibly resist a Palestinian state.

The flotilla are not the problem.

What better time is there to do it again then when 2 million people are starving when without the illegal blockade they wouldn't be?

Why should Greta be neutral about an illegal blockade that causes great hardship, about a country breaking international law?

From governments responses, yes I do think some people could be at risk.

Hopefully all will be ok. I actually know three people on the flotillas. Only realised yesterday that it was three. So yes the thoughts of them being detained. Especially with all the anti Irish sentiment in Israel is worrying.

So people on the flotilla are only potentially at risk if their governments respond in a certain way? Where’s the logic?

They aren’t at risk but people like to pretend they are to have something else to get outraged about.

All I ever hear about is anti Israel sentiment expressed by the Irish not the other way around. Wasn’t one bit surprised to find out that so many of the people on board the flotillas are Irish.

The blockade in Gaza is not the reason there is hunger & malnutrition in Gaza as I’m sure you know. Aid is getting through in sufficient quantities now that we no longer hear about widespread famine have you noticed?

Why didn’t Greta watch the film about 7/10?

Oh let me guess … why should she?

22 Irish citizens were on board the flotilla according to RTE

Ah look, I'll leave you to it. You are set in your opinion, refuse to acknowledge that Israel are the ones who have acted illegally here, refuse to accept that the illegal blockade is damaging, have accused Greta of being antisemitic and anti Israel rather than acknowledge that her concerns are valid, now you've moved onto anti Irish sentiment again.

Actually most pro Palestinian protestors don’t want Israel dismantled, we just want rights for Palestinians including their right to self determination and statehood. Most believe in a two state solution, I believe a one state solution might better achieve peace, but not through deporting Palestinians but sharing a country equally with Palestinians. I strongly believe Palestinians have the right to their homeland and that Israelis born and raised in Israel have a right to stay, the original Palestinians as many have pointed out before were muslim, jewish and christian. It is possible to peacefully co-exist as we are now seeing in Northern Ireland.

I don’t believe in a “jewish” state and I don’t believe people from other countries should continue to move there and create settlements. I don’t believe religion should be at the heart of any government and I don’t believe people have the right to continue move there based on their religious beliefs (unless they are willing to buy property and integrate like a normal immigrant). So no not a Zionist - not in the modern context anyway - I have nothing against early Zionists who moved there, bought property and lived alongside Palestinians.

Well yes, of course they are. There are a small minority of Irish who seem utterly convinced the plight of the Palestinians is somehow their own. It isn’t.

No - the responses from international governments has shifted from previous flotilla’s. Their tone worries me. If they are concerned about their citizens safety, that is worrisome to me.

Like I said, hopefully I am wrong.

There is a flood of anti Irish content online, anti Irish articles in Israeli media, accusations of anti semitism by Israeli politicians.

Do you think that Greta would watch the 7/10 massacre and decide that is it right to block aid to civilians??

It’s very bizarre logic.

A minority?

What plight am I in? I wasn’t aware of plight. A housing crisis maybe but a that is truly dwarfed by the Palestinians lack of homes,

Because it has nothing to do with the blockade or with Greta. They are not doing this for Hamas but for ordinary Palestinians facing a genocide. I wouldn’t watch it either in that context because the people showing it are using it for justification for genocide.

Honestly we know what happened, it was horrific, but it doesn’t excuse how the IDF are behaving and the blockade was in existence before October 7th.

There are still people starving to death, there are still pictures of dead starving children coming out, it is no longer front page news as it has been going on so long. Aid agencies have reported that the peanut butter based supplement they use for treating malnutrition is on the list of banned “luxury” items that is not allowed into Gaza so they are finding it difficult to save children who have lost the ability to digest solid food. More aid is getting through but not enough. People are getting amputations without anaesthetics or antibiotics. Just because something is less high up in the news it doesn’t mean the problem is solved.

I’ve seen a disproportionate amount of hate against Israel expressed by Irish people on MN myself & it does suggest they have a special affinity with Palestinian people compared to their neighbours such as the English or Scottish for example.

Ireland also has a tiny Jewish population which I imagine is going to get smaller after this. Can’t exactly be a very welcoming environment for a Jewish person to live in.

Note that you don’t suggest why Greta wouldn’t watch the film. Sorry I pre emptied the stock response of Why should she.

It’s irrelevant that you wouldn’t watch the film @KoalaKoKo - neither have I watched it but my reason is that I would find it too upsetting (rather cowardly I know).

But Greta is an activist for this specific war. She is willing to devote her life to it at the moment. So it seems strange she doesn’t want to know more about the event that triggered it. Maybe she would have more compassion for Israelis if she watched what happened to some of them on 7/10 (or maybe she doesn’t want to be made to feel compassion for them).

Criticism of Israel policies and leaders and support for Palestinians does not equal 'hate'. Just like Greta highlighting the illegal blockade is not anti Israel. Attempting to shut down conversations surrounding Israel and their illegal activities with accusations of 'hate', anti Israel, antisemitism is all very juvenile.

It isn't hateful to point out illegal behaviour that is causing great suffering, I would argue that it is hateful to ignore it and not act.

I wouldn’t watch it either. Why would you want to? It’s not cowardly to avoid watching horrific scenes of violence.

It is possible to feel compassion towards Israelis while also being highly critical of what’s happening in Gaza.