Gaza Flotilla - genuine peace activists or Hamas puppets?

[TicklishMauveSquid]

It has been reported that these activists have rejected the Italian government and the Vatican's proposal to unload any aid they are carrying in Cyprus, to be transferred peacefully to Gaza.

They seem intent on sailing into a legal blockade in a warzone as a direct provocation to Israel who will be forced to take control of 50 boats and the people on them.

They have made lots of unproven allegations that Israel has attacked their boats which may well be to precursor violent resistance in 'self defence'.

They could be carrying anything, including weapons.

There is quite compelling evidence of Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood connections to this so called humanitarian flotilla, which could be considered perverse in the extreme seeing as Hamas has caused the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

https://govextra.gov.il/mda/march-to-gaza/the-hidden-networks-behind-the-global-sumud-flotilla

Hundreds of Israeli boat owners are being encouraged to counter protest in Navy approved zones (without interfering) as a presence 'a blue and white wall for the hostages'.

What do we think the outcome of this will be with Italian and Spanish Navy vessels in the mix?

This is quite a different situation than the ONE boat in the earlier failed attempt to breach the blockade this year where the 'activists' were peacefully appeased with sandwiches and sent on their way (after refusing to watch footage of Oct 7th).

This level of denial is staggering. Do you not realise that these acts are being viewed and testified globally every day? You may close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears, but that doesn’t make this abomination disappear.

The flotilla are a brave collection of well intentioned people. Why attack a peaceful coalition who are attempting to deliver baby formula, rather than the depraved murderous people who are withholding it from starving babies?

Why obsess about a young woman who hasn’t murdered anyone, when the Israeli army are murdering innocents daily?

Because they’re not peaceful!!!!

They’re propped up by an army of idiots who are posting en masse online to say yesterday’s attack is somehow justified, ‘what do Jews expect’, they haven’t even mentioned it!! The least they could do is condemn the comments of their supporters and release a statement condemning any antisemitic murder but they’re not!!!! Why aren’t they?!?!

Wise words and I totally agree about the Accords.

Yea it wasn't Hamas it was another group that consider hamas too moderate. He was a pro Palestine activist. The flotilla activists could be in trouble should they land .... fortunately G is intercepted and fed when she attempts to enter Gaza

They would be shitting themselves if they thought they could actually land.

It's so disingenuous the way Greta and co pretend to be scared of those intercepting the boats and giving them water and safe passage back to Europe.

It’s tragic. There is zero reason why Muslims should not be able to live alongside us in complete harmony and respect as do Sikhs, Hindus, Jews. All it would take is mutual acknowledge and rejection of our past grievances (big ask but non-Muslim Westerners would be prepared to do this, and don’t carry out terror attacks on this basis anyway) and the knowledge that while they have the right to practice their religion, they do not have the right to enforce it in wider society or break the law of the land to do so.

True and most of them do live alongside us in harmony of course (moderate Muslims).

It's Islamic extremism that people in Europe are beginning to fear and is leading to too many divisions in society.

Yes but that doesn’t mean the homophobia and intolerance of others isn’t there. I know hard working Muslim families who don’t break the law, yet their views are very outdated and at odds with Western society. They haven’t acted on them; but they are there, sadly. A survey found half of British Muslims think homosexuality should be imprisonable, and a quarter want Sharia law for the UK. There is a common theme of active dislike for the West, celebrating its losses and automatically siding with whoever our opposing side is. I hate to say it but my Facebook and Instagram stories tell me otherwise - I’m connected with ‘moderate’ Muslims who post relentlessly about Gaza, the ills of the West, how we live immoral lives in their view, lots of support for Iran etc

Look at the Muslim politicians in the UK. 80% of them seem to have almost completely given up their duties to their constituents and spend all their time posting and campaigning about Gaza and how awful the West is. The irony is they’re only doing this as they share an ethnicity/belief system with Gazans - while decrying white Westerners as ‘racist’ for purportedly caring more about Ukrainian refugees because they’re white and Western.

I agree with much of what you say. It's divisive when people living in our communities don't share our values of mutual respect and tolerance. There are cultural differences re attitudes to things like homosexuality and inter faith relationships. However, I am hoping that these outdated attitudes are gradually changing amongst younger Muslims living in the UK.

And yes, I am aware of certain politicians who seem to care way more about Gaza than the UK constituents they were voted to represent. I hope that will be duly noted and acted upon in the next election by their constituents who might have been hoping the emphasis would be more local.

I was heartened to see the global snap protests yesterday about Israels decision to illegally detain lawyers, politicians and activists from around the world. From Dublin to Sydney to Buenos Aires people were out showing their disdain for Israel's depraved behaviour. The flotilla has been very successful in their mission to reveal the violent and unlawful behavior of Israeli occupation forces. Israel’s hostile response to their missions reflect a wider, ongoing brutality inflicted upon civilians in Gaza on a daily basis.

People don't like that they are shining a light on the truth of the occupation, that's why these flotillas rile them up so much.

It’s nothing to do with the occupation @CrossChecking & everything to do with the hypocrisy & narcissism of the people aboard the flotillas that make some people speak against them.

It’s the fact that they are pretending their main goal is to deliver aid when it isn’t. And they are pretending to be scared about the flotillas being intercepted by the IDF when they knew this would happen all along. Greta in particular knew the score as this isn’t her first rodeo.

You are wrong there - the person I know on the boats is a kind and gentle person. She has spent years campaigning for human rights across several conflicts, campaigned to end direct provision in Ireland and volunteers with refugee organisations. She literally spends her life helping others, she is the opposite of attention seeking. People on the boats risked their lives because they have big hearts and huge empathy for people suffering in the world.

It's quite terrifying when you realise just how many sick fuckers there are in the world. Who the hell is still trying to defend Israel?

Their aims are clearly stated on their website.
1.We challenge the blockade
2.We expose the nature of the occupation.
3.We raise awareness
4.We challenge the blockade in courts.
5.We respond to calls from Gaza.
6.We offer hope and inspiration.

Can you tell me what about these clearly stated aims makes you think that they are 'pretending their main goal is to deliver aid'? It's not their fault if their detractors can't be bothered to read their website and see what they are about. Of course they knew that Israel would try and illegally detain them, that's all part of trying to highlight Israels illegal blockade. Given the number of protests yesterday and the news coverage that the flotilla received I would say that they were very successful at that.

Are you not annoyed that Israel are pretending that the volunteers were trying to “breach a lawful naval blockade”, a claim that goes against international law? Where is the anger for the narcissism that makes Israel think they are above International law?

Maybe I should clarify at this point that I accept that some people on the futilla are well meaning but misguided. In my opinion of course.

You know full well their organisers have encouraged the public perception that they are mainly trying to deliver humanitarian aid.

They don’t fail to mention that they have aid on board do they? Trying to appeal to human emotions rather than saying it’s just a political act that they know in advance won’t achieve the supposed goal of delivering aid.

it’s just an excuse for more hating on Israel basically. Whether everyone understands that or not.

I am not a Zionist in that I feel the way Israel was created was barbaric and wrong but I also do not want to see it dismantled or jews deported. I don’t believe anyone should be punished for what their ancestors did and it is their home now, but it is also the Palestinian’s home. We need to acknowledge and teach our children about past crimes in order to learn from them and understand the scars the other side are carrying but we obviously can’t rewrite history or undo the past.

I would like Israel to extend equal rights to Palestinians, stop the settlements, give back recently stolen land and houses, arrest violent settlers, deport violent settlers with dual citizenship and stop the bombings. I am different to many people in that I think a one state solution might be the best way forward, to combine Israel and Palestine into something new that respects all cultures, all religions and gives equal representation in government, army and police. Remove segregation from schools and teach kids about the atrocities committed by both sides.

I don’t like the current deal not because I show “fake empathy” for the Palestinian people but because I have grown up seeing Gaza bombed over and over again on the news, seeing little children shot in cold blood. These people have been denied their basic human rights and freedoms for decades, this is the worst atrocity that has happened to them in my lifetime but it is not the only atrocity. The deal ends the fighting today but it gives no assurances that in 5 years time Israel won’t bomb Gaza again. It does not give Palestine control over it’s own borders. I would like the deal passed as a stepping stone to a better deal but this current deal does not protect Palestinians from further aggression and it allows the leaders in Hamas and Israel to get off scot free.

They aren’t pretending though. They are open about the fact that the purpose is to challenge the blockade.

Although they do have 40 tons of aid this time which is more than an airdrop could deliver.

They may have expected interception but I’m sure they are scared, all the same. Ultimately the IDF are using, what is an unnecessary show of force, to intimidate them.

The boats are small and the passengers are unarmed. Of course it will be frightening to be surrounded and taken in the dark by armed IDF.

Israel has to dispose of Hamas, for themselves and for the good of the Palestinians.
Everyone benefits from Hamas being destroyed.
It’s Hamas that use Palestinians as human shields.

Have they agreed to the ceasefire yet?

Ooh more than one airdrop!

Yet lots of the pro PALs were calling the air drops pointless at the time in terms of the tiny amount of aid each one could provide.

Pointless and dangerous people said. A bit like the flotillas ability to deliver aid, apart from the flotillas only pretend to be in danger, secure in the knowledge those aboard will promptly be deported to Europe.

It is an illegal blockade - a blockade has to fulfil many conditions, one of which is it can’t stop aid coming into the region so by stopping boats carrying aid they are in breach of international law. The flotilla have always said that the amount of aid they are carrying is not enough to make a difference but they want to end the blockade so that it can be opened as an aid corridor for boats that can carry more supplies.

The other aspect of the blockade that is illegal is that it is not temporary, this blockade has been in place for decades.

Israel are also not just policing Palestinian waters, they are also stopping boats in international waters, which again is illegal.

Some people don't regard highlighting illegal blockades as 'hating'. There are 2 million people whose lives have been severely impacted for decades by this illegal blockade. Reducing it down to 'hating on Israel' is really juvenile.

It isn't some kind of game Twiglets, the blockade has very real effects on Palestinian families and their economy. From B’Tselem in 2020 and that is just one aspect of the blockade.

Israel has arrested fishermen and seized their boats, banned the import of raw materials used for repairs, and fired at boats that it claimed sailed beyond the permitted range. To date, Israeli gunfire has killed seven fishermen and wounded hundreds. The restrictions have led to the near-collapse of the Gazan fishing industry: there are currently less than 4,000 fishermen, as opposed to 10,000 or so 20 years ago. Those remaining suffer from perilous working conditions imposed by Israel and live with their families in abject poverty.

Yet as you say it’s been going on for decades so why do the flotillas choose now - a time of huge tension & a war going on - to promote their objections to the long existing blockade? Do you - or they- really think Israel are likely to unblock it at this point in time when the reason for the blockade in the first place was to stop Hamas importing arms via the port?

Don’t you think those on board the flotillas could at least have delayed their arrival by a few days to get the Hamas response before causing more political upheaval & disorder?

The flotilla movement was founded decades ago. There were 31 boats between 2008 and 2016. Five of which reached Gaza. This isn't some sudden thing like you seem to be implying this movement has been happening for decades.

Exactly and the boats setting sail weeks ago has actually helped raise awareness. It has seen EU countries offer their military vessels to assist the flotilla, that is a new development and a signal to Israel that they will no longer stand by and watch them commit crimes.

Dropping incendiary devices on boats with EU, UK and US citizens on board, including politicians, peace activists, lawyers and journalists has forced countries to see how this affects all of us.

The flotilla and the boycott movement are helping to put pressure on Israel to end this genocide. We should all support anything that is helping to end violence.