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Conflict in the Middle East
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11
Gansy · 12/09/2025 14:15

Right, I don’t disagree with some of the things you said. I can also see you’ll pick and choose for what you want to say and are not here to see any sense. They won’t surrender because there is nothing in sight for the future. No state. No rights. There’s no hope. Just refugee camps, displacement, loss of identity and kind of grounding.

So, if it’s so simple, answer it yourself and let us all know.

Presenting these questions as some sort counter argument to the annihilation of 18,000 children is a nonsense.The IDF and Israeli government have killed those kids in the most sadistic way. They have literally flown in creeps from Chicago the operate sniper drones on kids, like a game of fucking GTA.
Killing little girls dragging gallons of water in to dismal shelters. Killing little children getting supplements and playing. Leaving babies alone to die in a seized hospital. Raping inmates with metal poles until they die.
We could go on and on and on.
Thats the death cult.

And then when they have enough of killing civilians, they use their earnings to chill out with a trip to Europe, Japan and Australia - that’s why we’ve seen those countries revoke the tourist visas to touring IDF.

TakeMe2Insanity · 12/09/2025 14:20

The key point is collective punishment is wrong and Israel needs to stop.

Alicealig · 12/09/2025 14:29

This reply has been deleted

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Wedonttalkaboutboris · 12/09/2025 16:57

SammyScrounge · 12/09/2025 02:39

And don't forget that it was Hamas"s slaughter of defenseless babies and youngsters and whole families that started all this.

When you do something like the savage attack on Israel last October and then brag you'll do it again, you can expect retribution.

Israel has been slaughtering Palestinian children long before 7/10

OP posts:
Wedonttalkaboutboris · 12/09/2025 17:17

Some independent researchers, including Dr. Gideon Polya and Professor Richard Hil, have said that the total number of deaths could be much higher than official reports indicate, claiming that the death toll in Gaza could be at least 680,000- 380,000 infants under 5 years of age and 99,000 children 5 or over.

While the exact figures are difficult to verify, the scale of the destruction and attacks on civilians makes it clear that Palestinian children have been disproportionately affected. Even if you dispute the highest estimates, the reality is undeniable and the fact that children make up such a large portion of casualties is devastating.

Children are dying simply because they exist in Gaza.

Claims that “Hamas endangers children” ignore that Palestinian civilians, including infants and toddlers, have no way to protect themselves from bombardment or starvation - and it is Israel bombing and starving them.

Whether the child toll is 20,000, 50,000, or 380,000 infants, the scale of devastation and the disproportionate impact on children is clear.

This should be demanding urgent international attention and the focus should be on preventing further deaths and addressing the ongoing humanitarian crisis- not debating which side “deserves” sympathy.

OP posts:
KoalaKoKo · 12/09/2025 20:09

SisterTeatime · 12/09/2025 12:59

It’s not about having insight into Hamas, it’s a very simple question, what have they
DONE to protect their people?

We all know that the answer is that not only have they done nothing, they have endangered their people time and time again. It is part of their war strategy and very deliberate.

Why doesn’t Gaza have systems of alarms and shelters like Israeli citizens do?

Why don’t the Hamas military wear uniforms when they fight so that they can be clearly identified as combatants?

Why do the Hamas combatants fight in densely populated civilian areas?

Why, when civilians have been warned by the IDF to move from one area to another, have they been herded back into danger by Hamas?

Why doesn’t Hamas use its networks of tunnels to shelter civilians?

Why do they continue with a militarily uneven war that puts their people in a catastrophically perilous situation?

Why don’t they surrender?

I could go on.

Honestly are you serious? Gaza has had a sea embargo for decades, it has everything coming in and out of Gaza monitored - how are they going to build an iron dome when they can’t even import solar panels and who exactly will fund it. It doesn’t get billions and billions from the US like Israel? You can’t say it’s someone else's fault you killed thousands of children because “someone should have stopped us”. That is sociopathic.

SisterTeatime · 12/09/2025 21:31

KoalaKoKo · 12/09/2025 20:09

Honestly are you serious? Gaza has had a sea embargo for decades, it has everything coming in and out of Gaza monitored - how are they going to build an iron dome when they can’t even import solar panels and who exactly will fund it. It doesn’t get billions and billions from the US like Israel? You can’t say it’s someone else's fault you killed thousands of children because “someone should have stopped us”. That is sociopathic.

Most countries don’t have an Iron Dome. I’m sure Israel wishes it didn’t need one.

Yes, I am serious. Hamas managed to build all those tunnels and amass wealth for themselves. It’s not Israel’s fault they did that instead of improving life for people in Gaza. If Hamas didn’t insist on bringing in weapons to achieve their goal of destroying Israel, the embargoes would not be necessary.

A quick look at Wikipedia tells me that Palestinians (so not just Gaza but including Gaza) received more than $40 billion in aid between 1994 and 2020. Hamas gets a share of $100 million annually from Iran, along with other Palestinian groups. Some aid is provided by the US and some facilitated by the US via Qatar. So they do get quite a lot of aid, as well as other income. And they could spend it making their citizens’ lives better. But they don’t.

SharonEllis · 13/09/2025 08:04

SisterTeatime · 12/09/2025 21:31

Most countries don’t have an Iron Dome. I’m sure Israel wishes it didn’t need one.

Yes, I am serious. Hamas managed to build all those tunnels and amass wealth for themselves. It’s not Israel’s fault they did that instead of improving life for people in Gaza. If Hamas didn’t insist on bringing in weapons to achieve their goal of destroying Israel, the embargoes would not be necessary.

A quick look at Wikipedia tells me that Palestinians (so not just Gaza but including Gaza) received more than $40 billion in aid between 1994 and 2020. Hamas gets a share of $100 million annually from Iran, along with other Palestinian groups. Some aid is provided by the US and some facilitated by the US via Qatar. So they do get quite a lot of aid, as well as other income. And they could spend it making their citizens’ lives better. But they don’t.

If Hamas didn’t insist on bringing in weapons to achieve their goal of destroying Israel, the embargoes would not be necessary.

This bears repeating. People seem to think Israel has done this for fun but this is the bottom line. Despite withdrawing from Gaza they could not be expected to leave themselves entirely vulnerable. But the Palestinian people could have made entirely diffetent choices.

Martymcfly24 · 13/09/2025 08:11

SharonEllis · 13/09/2025 08:04

If Hamas didn’t insist on bringing in weapons to achieve their goal of destroying Israel, the embargoes would not be necessary.

This bears repeating. People seem to think Israel has done this for fun but this is the bottom line. Despite withdrawing from Gaza they could not be expected to leave themselves entirely vulnerable. But the Palestinian people could have made entirely diffetent choices.

@SharonEllis you have been around long enough to know that Israel did not fully withdraw from Gaza and made life infinitely more difficult for the residents there through restrictions a system of permits, unlawful detentions and a.blockade on air and sea.

Does that justify violence and death? No.
but if there is to be any hope in moving forward there has to be an acknowledgement of the wrongs of both sides and the reasons why Israel are vulnerable were not simply idealogical but rooted as well in day to day hardships.

SharonEllis · 13/09/2025 08:16

Martymcfly24 · 13/09/2025 08:11

@SharonEllis you have been around long enough to know that Israel did not fully withdraw from Gaza and made life infinitely more difficult for the residents there through restrictions a system of permits, unlawful detentions and a.blockade on air and sea.

Does that justify violence and death? No.
but if there is to be any hope in moving forward there has to be an acknowledgement of the wrongs of both sides and the reasons why Israel are vulnerable were not simply idealogical but rooted as well in day to day hardships.

They couldn't leave themselves entirely exposed to people who want to destroy them. Why is this so hard to understand? I dont think there was anything wrong with blockading to stop Hamas importing weapons. Nor do I think controlling Palestinians moving in and out is wrong - every country does it in some shape or form.

SharonEllis · 13/09/2025 08:20

And to add the day to day hardships of the Palestinian people lie at the door of their government that could have made entirely different choices when Israel withdrew. They didnt. They continued to radicalise their society, cripple them with taxes and corruption and to gear their infrastructure towards attacking Israel.

Martymcfly24 · 13/09/2025 08:31

SharonEllis · 13/09/2025 08:16

They couldn't leave themselves entirely exposed to people who want to destroy them. Why is this so hard to understand? I dont think there was anything wrong with blockading to stop Hamas importing weapons. Nor do I think controlling Palestinians moving in and out is wrong - every country does it in some shape or form.

But it's back to the circular argument. Israel's actions in Gaza led to the rise of the new generations of terrorists.

Israel banned pasta at one stage from entering also chocolate, wheelchairs, hearing aid batteries, ginger and crayons.
Permits to study, build, fish etc

A life of curfews, checkpoints and road blockades.

Do you really not accept that Israels actions in Gaza went beyond keeping themselves safe and were there to control a population?

TakeMe2Insanity · 13/09/2025 09:54

SharonEllis · 13/09/2025 08:04

If Hamas didn’t insist on bringing in weapons to achieve their goal of destroying Israel, the embargoes would not be necessary.

This bears repeating. People seem to think Israel has done this for fun but this is the bottom line. Despite withdrawing from Gaza they could not be expected to leave themselves entirely vulnerable. But the Palestinian people could have made entirely diffetent choices.

Palestinians would have made entirely different choices if they were left on their land and in their homes INSTEAD of creating Israel.

SisterTeatime · 13/09/2025 11:05

TakeMe2Insanity · 13/09/2025 09:54

Palestinians would have made entirely different choices if they were left on their land and in their homes INSTEAD of creating Israel.

Is this what they call ‘saying the quiet part out loud’?

SharonEllis · 13/09/2025 11:11

SisterTeatime · 13/09/2025 11:05

Is this what they call ‘saying the quiet part out loud’?

I think it is!

TulipLavender · 15/09/2025 15:46

Utahthecat · 12/09/2025 11:43

The Rest is Politics Leading podcast had a brilliant, if harrowing, interview with James Elder from UNICEF this week who shared so many horrific stories about what life is like for children in Gaza and the reality of trying to deliver aid in Gaza (spoiler: it's not Hamas' fault lifesaving aid can't be delivered to starving, dying children).

I know the "butHamas" lot have no time for the UN but these people know what it is like to work in difficult humanitarian situations and I trust their word much more than the Israeli state.

Highly reccommend, it is well worth listening to.

Second this, its well worth a watch

MummytoE · 18/09/2025 20:07

Soontobe60 · 10/09/2025 20:17

38 Israeli children were killed by Hamas on 7/10. The attacks began at around 6.30am so those children were murdered over around a 12 hour period - that’s around 3 children an hour.
Do those children not matter because they were Jewish?

Oh stop FFS

Thegreyhound · 20/09/2025 11:10

Didntask · 10/09/2025 19:54

I've only skim read the link, but there doesn't seem to be any mention of Hamas at all... why is that?

Because the IDF are killing them, not Hamas, obviously

Thegreyhound · 20/09/2025 11:12

DonaldTrumpsTwitterFeed · 10/09/2025 20:04

Hours in a day = 24
Hours in a week = 168
Hours in a month = 730

Hours in 23 months = 16790.

So not a child every hour at 20,000 at all.

That puts their hours just over 3K out. Which actually makes it 19 months. Which is four months different - quite a lot. That's what...17% off their guess? That's quite a lot.

They can't even get their headline right which rather makes it hard to really trust anything they say. If you are going to make sensationalist headlines, aimed I am sure at generating public condemnation, you should try and get the facts right.

They'd be better off halting the sensationalist headlines and printing accurate facts as they might find people are more receptive to their pleas. Over-exaggerating does no one any favours.

I’m struggling to see your point here, but adding up the maths it seems like your point is that the lives of Palestinian children are irrelevant except as an opportunity to score points against an aid agency with? Which = reprehensible

Thegreyhound · 20/09/2025 11:16

SharonEllis · 11/09/2025 06:33

Nonsense. You make out that the deals Hamas agreed to were reasonable. Israel had legitimate reasons to reject them. The problem is you dont take Israel's security concerns seriously so you think they should accept any deal.

It’s very difficult to take Israel’s ‘security threats’ seriously when they are:
a nuclear power
armed to the teeth by America and much of Europe including us
frequently in flagrant breach of international law with no consequences and
bombing all of their neighbours with alarming regularity

quantumbutterfly · 20/09/2025 13:09

Thegreyhound · 20/09/2025 11:16

It’s very difficult to take Israel’s ‘security threats’ seriously when they are:
a nuclear power
armed to the teeth by America and much of Europe including us
frequently in flagrant breach of international law with no consequences and
bombing all of their neighbours with alarming regularity

I imagine there must be a reason why there are multiple private and public safe rooms (redesigned since 7/10) , iron shield missile defence system and now a laser guided drone defence system.

MissyB1 · 20/09/2025 13:14

Thegreyhound · 20/09/2025 11:16

It’s very difficult to take Israel’s ‘security threats’ seriously when they are:
a nuclear power
armed to the teeth by America and much of Europe including us
frequently in flagrant breach of international law with no consequences and
bombing all of their neighbours with alarming regularity

In my opinion Israel are the security threat.

Martymcfly24 · 20/09/2025 13:14

Thegreyhound · 20/09/2025 11:16

It’s very difficult to take Israel’s ‘security threats’ seriously when they are:
a nuclear power
armed to the teeth by America and much of Europe including us
frequently in flagrant breach of international law with no consequences and
bombing all of their neighbours with alarming regularity

It's like the playground bully that keeps poking and poking another child then runs to teacher when they hit back.

Thegreyhound · 20/09/2025 14:41

quantumbutterfly · 20/09/2025 13:09

I imagine there must be a reason why there are multiple private and public safe rooms (redesigned since 7/10) , iron shield missile defence system and now a laser guided drone defence system.

So that what Israel is doing to everyone else can’t be done to them presumably.

Crosorbled · 20/09/2025 15:07

While I completely sympathise with the situation in Gaza , I feel very very sad for all the men , women & children who were killed and the hostages who were detained by the despicable Hamas in the initial attack in Israel .

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