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Conflict in the Middle East
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8
SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 16:18

Mercurial123 · 30/08/2025 16:17

You seriously can't work out my point?!

Could you just explain?

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 16:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 16:19

Details on this page @MissyB1.❤️

www.christians4palestine.org/activities-and-bds/

CaramelPecan · 30/08/2025 16:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Could you point out the trolls so we know who to ignore?

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 16:24

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 16:19

Details on this page @MissyB1.❤️

www.christians4palestine.org/activities-and-bds/

I actually think it’s an incredible shame that we have to rely on people/ organisations to boycott to make a difference. Our governments have really been hopeless at changing the reality of what is happening in Gaza.

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 16:26

Saying that, there are concerns in academic institutions in Israel about the recent uptick in them being sidelined by academics and even organisations in Europe due to the concerns about starvation in Gaza at present.

MissyB1 · 30/08/2025 16:27

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 16:24

I actually think it’s an incredible shame that we have to rely on people/ organisations to boycott to make a difference. Our governments have really been hopeless at changing the reality of what is happening in Gaza.

Thanks 😊

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 16:28

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 16:26

Saying that, there are concerns in academic institutions in Israel about the recent uptick in them being sidelined by academics and even organisations in Europe due to the concerns about starvation in Gaza at present.

There has been quite widespread boycotting and disruption of relations with Israeli universities for a long time, but intensified recently. I wonder how that helps pregnant women in Gaza? When Israeli research and development is so important in so many fields.

MissyB1 · 30/08/2025 16:28

MissyB1 · 30/08/2025 16:27

Thanks 😊

Sorry wrong quote. Meant to thank @TooBigForMyBoots for payment link.

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 16:52

MissyB1 · 30/08/2025 16:27

Thanks 😊

The EU is vacillating on whether it should reconsider its association with Israel, which provides significant research funding via Horizon, due to concerns about what is happening in Gaza. They are apparently waiting to see if the situation improves now.

However, individuals are taking matters into their own hands. I am not sure if this will make a difference to a right wing government or a right wing population that votes them in, but may make liberals question more what Israel is doing.

People in Gaza themselves just need basic care- it’s not rocket science.

Mercurial123 · 30/08/2025 16:56

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 16:18

Could you just explain?

Maybe go back and read some of your previous comments and then join the dots. Or is that too much of a challenge?

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 17:03

Mercurial123 · 30/08/2025 16:56

Maybe go back and read some of your previous comments and then join the dots. Or is that too much of a challenge?

I'd really like to understand how the low birth rate in the ghetto (which the author suggests was down to women's choice) relates to the suggestion on this thread that its somehow awful for people to wonder why Palestinian women aren't making the same choice in Gaza at the moment?

Hoppinggreen · 30/08/2025 18:19

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:49

Noone mentioned the better legal rights for women in Israel being a comfort to women in Gaza.

You mentioned how the rights of Israeli women are better than those of Gazan women, I am sure that doesn't come as a surprise to anyone so it may be that you had another reason for making that point.

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 18:22

Hoppinggreen · 30/08/2025 18:19

You mentioned how the rights of Israeli women are better than those of Gazan women, I am sure that doesn't come as a surprise to anyone so it may be that you had another reason for making that point.

Well that certainly wasn't a point I would even think of.

Hoppinggreen · 30/08/2025 18:43

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 18:22

Well that certainly wasn't a point I would even think of.

In Gaza domestic violence is a big issue. A rapist can avoid prosecution by marrying his victim. Marital rape is not illegal but abortion is
On the other hand marital rape has been illegal in Israel since 1980 I think, before it was here in the UK.

The implication was clear.

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 18:48

Hoppinggreen · 30/08/2025 18:43

In Gaza domestic violence is a big issue. A rapist can avoid prosecution by marrying his victim. Marital rape is not illegal but abortion is
On the other hand marital rape has been illegal in Israel since 1980 I think, before it was here in the UK.

The implication was clear.

Not to anyone but you I suspect.

mids2019 · 30/08/2025 19:50

There are other acts of intimacy that don't result in pregnancy and so you have to think the pregnancies are deliberate choices. You would presume intelligent free women would delay pregnancy until the cessation of hostilities given the immediate prospects for their offspring so I think it is right to consider coercion in many cases.

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 19:52

So on a thread discussing how women and their babies are suffering - we have posters talking about “nuances” which include:

berating women for falling pregnant (despite there not being available contraception)

wondering how people would to have want to have sex and potentially fall pregnant when they are starving

talking about that some of the blame must lie with Palestinian men for raping women

Just imagine having to accept that the difficulties may lie with the lack of food, contraception, lack of medical facilities, difficulty accessing water, having their homes destroyed and being moved repeatedly. Yes Hamas is to blame too, as well as Israel.

No - let’s speak about the “nuances”

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 20:04

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 19:52

So on a thread discussing how women and their babies are suffering - we have posters talking about “nuances” which include:

berating women for falling pregnant (despite there not being available contraception)

wondering how people would to have want to have sex and potentially fall pregnant when they are starving

talking about that some of the blame must lie with Palestinian men for raping women

Just imagine having to accept that the difficulties may lie with the lack of food, contraception, lack of medical facilities, difficulty accessing water, having their homes destroyed and being moved repeatedly. Yes Hamas is to blame too, as well as Israel.

No - let’s speak about the “nuances”

Why do you object so strongly to nuance and complexity? Why do you want a complex thing to be a simple thing? Do you honestly think the only issue facing Palestinian women is the things you can blame Israel for (you mention Hamas now but it barely got a mention before). Do you really think there is only one reason why women in war became pregnant (I'm not sure what that reason would be exactly). Is it really wrong to empathise with women who are pregnant but don't want to be? Or do you just not accept that and think they are happy to be pregnant? Was anyone actually berating women? Were they not expressing surprise and trying to understand? Do you really think Palestinian men bear no responsibility at all, given that I think we all agree its an awful environment to be pregnant and giving birth?

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 20:06

@Stripes56 and I think the only time I mentioned nuance was when discussing the well documented pattern of birth rates going up in some conflicts and how there were various reasons for it. Sorry I can't give you the simplistic analysis that you are so obviously after.

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 20:24

It’s actually neither complex nor nuanced, unless you want to quite inhumanely blame the victims or focus on what is likely to be minor roles in the causes for suffering.

Some people can’t see the woods for the trees.

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 20:24

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 18:48

Not to anyone but you I suspect.

Your dogwhistles are loud and clear.🙄

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 20:27

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 19:52

So on a thread discussing how women and their babies are suffering - we have posters talking about “nuances” which include:

berating women for falling pregnant (despite there not being available contraception)

wondering how people would to have want to have sex and potentially fall pregnant when they are starving

talking about that some of the blame must lie with Palestinian men for raping women

Just imagine having to accept that the difficulties may lie with the lack of food, contraception, lack of medical facilities, difficulty accessing water, having their homes destroyed and being moved repeatedly. Yes Hamas is to blame too, as well as Israel.

No - let’s speak about the “nuances”

They've nothing else. Israel is committing war crimes. They have to defend it somehow. And if not defending, then deflect, derail and victim blame.

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 20:27

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 20:24

Your dogwhistles are loud and clear.🙄

Edited

Thar's very offensive. What have I said that is a dog whistle?

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 20:29

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 20:27

They've nothing else. Israel is committing war crimes. They have to defend it somehow. And if not defending, then deflect, derail and victim blame.

I try not to engage with it, as it does derail threads. But it’s hard to ignore at times.