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Conflict in the Middle East
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8
Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 15:04

MumOfManyAliases · 30/08/2025 14:47

Israel is sending supplies to Gaza. Why on earth would they block them - especially if doing so makes them look bad? How do you know it isn’t Hamas that’s holding onto the food supplies to fuel their propaganda campaign?

This really does show lack of awareness of what has and is happening in Gaza. Perhaps this post also explains why some people think those criticising the situation in Gaza are simply being antisemitic. They may not be aware of what is apparent to most of the people world now.

This article has distressing pictures

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-08-21/ty-article-magazine/starvation-is-everywhere-virtual-tours-of-gaza-clinics-expose-the-scale-of-the-horror/00000198-ccb7-dcce-a5bf-cdb714fb0000

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:06

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 14:48

So the answer of the impact of starvation and war trauma on women and their babies is not to have sex, and presume when it happens they are under coercion?

What about the more humane pathway of ensuring there was sufficient food, truly safe zones and contraception available.

Why do people who support Israel always want to portray Gazan women as subjugated? Some maybe - as in every culture. Palestinian women are highly educated.

https://www.stevesinnottfoundation.org.uk/women-and-girls-education-gupt-perspective#:~:text=Palestinian%20women%20continue%20to%20be,women%20comprise%2030%25%20of%20staff.

No quite the opposite. I believe all people have agency and are able to make choices. I don't presume that all sex is coerced in Gaza and haven't even come close to saying that. But it is odd, don't you think, that educated women would choose to get pregnant and bring children into the world in this situation? Obviously they are not responsible for the war. But they are responsible for the choices they make. If they have indeed made that choice. I think you're naive to think its a free choice for all of them given the legal structure that doesn't protect women from rape very well, the well known propensity of men to rape vulnerable women in war, and the longstanding cultural pressure on Palestinian women to have babies (Arafat 's 'womb of the Arab woman is my greatest weapon' etc).

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:10

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 14:54

I think its bizarrely racist to think Palestinian men can't control themselves.

Given that you are the one saying that these women are pregnant because their husbands are raping them you're being racist by your own definition @SharonEllis.

No, others are saying that having sex in wartime is normal, with starving women and knowing that the woman will have go through pregnancy and childbirth. That suggests to me implying that the men cant control themselves when we all know that its perfectly possible to have sex without making a woman pregnant. I have explicitly said that men in wartime the world over have a propensity to rape. I was explicitly not being racist about it. I said it was a male thing not a race thing.

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:12

@SharonEllis
please stop trying to derail this thread

OP posts:
runningpram · 30/08/2025 15:16

I agree op. I have been historically v pro
Israel and particularly immediately following October7 but I feel impotent in this situation.
I will support charities like Red Cross but is there anything political we can do?

I am not a leftie and v much think Israel historically as a democracy has been a good thing in the region. Is there a group that supports Israel and that is not anti semitic, acknowledges the horrors of October 7 but will stand up against Netanyahu and this nightmare?

The only group I can think of right now is the Lib Dems but I don’t know where they stand on the conflict.

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:20

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:12

@SharonEllis
please stop trying to derail this thread

I'm just answering points put to me. If someone had just responded to mids point saying something empathetic about women who are pregnant and don't want to be we wouldn't be here, would we? I said the reasons were nuanced up thread. Its you and others who just wanted to reduce a complicated issue to Israel bad/Palestinians good, as usual.

Comedycook · 30/08/2025 15:23

Im not surprised people have sex in a warzone....I do wonder where they find the privacy to do so?

I also was watching the news a few weeks ago and they were talking to a pregnant woman in Gaza...they said she was expecting a baby girl....I wondered if they are still able to have scans as how did they know the sex of the baby?

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 15:24

Women find comfort in sexual intimacy too @SharonEllis. Parents find hope, strength and love in pregnancy. These are natural human responses even in the most traumatic of times.

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:25

@runningpram i am not familiar with the lid dems position or how much pressure they could bring to bear but will look into it.
there are Jewish organisations campaigning too, I am not overly familiar with them but might be of interest to those who are opposed to Israel’s current actions but are also concerned about any possible anti-semitism

jfjfp.com/who-we-are/

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 15:27

Mobile maternity units are in use @Comedycook.

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:28

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 15:24

Women find comfort in sexual intimacy too @SharonEllis. Parents find hope, strength and love in pregnancy. These are natural human responses even in the most traumatic of times.

Yes I know that. I wrote that above at least once. It doesnt have to result in pregnancy.

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 15:29

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:06

No quite the opposite. I believe all people have agency and are able to make choices. I don't presume that all sex is coerced in Gaza and haven't even come close to saying that. But it is odd, don't you think, that educated women would choose to get pregnant and bring children into the world in this situation? Obviously they are not responsible for the war. But they are responsible for the choices they make. If they have indeed made that choice. I think you're naive to think its a free choice for all of them given the legal structure that doesn't protect women from rape very well, the well known propensity of men to rape vulnerable women in war, and the longstanding cultural pressure on Palestinian women to have babies (Arafat 's 'womb of the Arab woman is my greatest weapon' etc).

Globally the rate of unplanned pregnancy is 50%.

It is only Palestinian women who should be berated even though they do not have access to contraception.

So, to add to the list of things that Palestinian women should endure, they should not have the freedom to have sex as Israel chose to block access to food, contraception etc.

I wonder if this poster has any comments in the rates of fertility of some sections of the Israeli female population- or does she only question fertility rates of Palestinian women?

Martymcfly24 · 30/08/2025 15:31

@Everexpanding I actually saw that article in the journal and said I won't post that because I can see the accusations of becoming pregnant starting.

The situation will worsen for any women in Gaza City as Israel is halting aid going in there/air dropsnso I imagine any heavily pregnant women and their babies unable to evacuate will die soon.

MissyB1 · 30/08/2025 15:31

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 13:53

I do wonder why more is not being done to prevent a civilian population being targeted like fish in a barrel.

Fear of Trump and his tariffs, fear of losing votes, fear of financial implications for business, fear of being labelled anti semitic (very triggering for Labour), fear of losing support and money from Jewish lobbying groups. None of which are any kind of an excuse of course. This will rightly go down in history as extremely shameful. Sickens me.

ILoveWhales · 30/08/2025 15:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:33

@ILoveWhales racist ideas not welcome here

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Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:34

Martymcfly24 · 30/08/2025 15:31

@Everexpanding I actually saw that article in the journal and said I won't post that because I can see the accusations of becoming pregnant starting.

The situation will worsen for any women in Gaza City as Israel is halting aid going in there/air dropsnso I imagine any heavily pregnant women and their babies unable to evacuate will die soon.

I actually didn’t expect those comments, thought I was beyond being shocked but ever lower some commentators go

OP posts:
Martymcfly24 · 30/08/2025 15:39

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:34

I actually didn’t expect those comments, thought I was beyond being shocked but ever lower some commentators go

I wish I was shocked but it's part and parcel of the dehumanisation of Palestinians . It's easier to see the death toll rising then.
Even the pp saying why can't men leave them alone. Infantilinising strong women who have survived in conditions and been mothers in conditions I know I could not survive in.

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:40

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 15:29

Globally the rate of unplanned pregnancy is 50%.

It is only Palestinian women who should be berated even though they do not have access to contraception.

So, to add to the list of things that Palestinian women should endure, they should not have the freedom to have sex as Israel chose to block access to food, contraception etc.

I wonder if this poster has any comments in the rates of fertility of some sections of the Israeli female population- or does she only question fertility rates of Palestinian women?

Why are you quoting me but referring to me in the third person? I think answering this question would be considered derailing so what to do?

But as you've asked. As a feminist Im always disturbed by the pressure put on women to reproduce for cultural or political ends. That applies to Israeli and Jewish women, yes. As someone interested in data Im always intrigued by huge disparities in fertility data across the world. The reasons aren't particularly biological, so they must be cultural. Fertility tends to go down as women become more educated because women aspire to do more than just be mothers and homenakers but societies that feel threatened often feel the need to ensure high fertility. When the Jewish population is so small its not surprising that there is momebtum behind having larger families. The fetishisation of motherhood is also often a feature of authoritarian societies. We know that large families have been actively encouraged for Palestinian women. Why we can't discuss these things openly, intelligently and with empathy is disappointing.
I don't think I said Palestinian women shouldn't be allowed to have sex. I expressed surprise that they would want to get pregnant and have to look after a baby in such circumstances. As a mother I don't think that is wrong or makes me a bad person.

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:44

@SharonEllis as a feminist are you concerned about women being forced to give birth raise children without access to pain relief, proper medical care and nutrition?

OP posts:
SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:45

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:44

@SharonEllis as a feminist are you concerned about women being forced to give birth raise children without access to pain relief, proper medical care and nutrition?

Obviously.

Hoppinggreen · 30/08/2025 15:45

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 14:24

In Gaza domestic violence is a big issue. A rapist can avoid prosecution by marrying his victim. Marital rape is not illegal but abortion is. These are relevant issues when considering pregnancy rates in Gaza and if you cared about women you wouldn't dismiss them. On the other hand marital rape has been illegal in Israel since 1980 I think, before it was here in the UK.

I imagine that knowing the wives of the men who are dropping bombs on them have more rights than them isn't a great comfort to the women of Gaza.

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:46

Hoppinggreen · 30/08/2025 15:45

I imagine that knowing the wives of the men who are dropping bombs on them have more rights than them isn't a great comfort to the women of Gaza.

Who on earth would think it would be?

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 15:46

When people fear they maÿ not be alive in the morning, or at the end of the day, fear of pregnancy is not uppermost in their minds.

Can you really be so ignorant of the Human Condition? Or is it you don't consider Palestinians to be human?

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:46

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:44

@SharonEllis as a feminist are you concerned about women being forced to give birth raise children without access to pain relief, proper medical care and nutrition?

I'd be concerned even if I wasn't a feminist, surely?