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Conflict in the Middle East
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8
SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 20:33

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 20:27

They've nothing else. Israel is committing war crimes. They have to defend it somehow. And if not defending, then deflect, derail and victim blame.

How is discussing the reasons why women get pregnant in a war zone defending war crimes? Why do you lump that all under the heading of 'victim blaming'? Do you have no empathy for Palestinian women at all? I don't think I've ever seen a clearer illustration of Palestinians as a pawn in the game of blaming Israel for everything.

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 20:36

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 20:29

I try not to engage with it, as it does derail threads. But it’s hard to ignore at times.

It is.

That's because most posters here are posting in good faith and expect the same from others. It's a difficult path, correcting disinformation vs feeding trolls.

There's a thread running in Site Stuff about it.Smile

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 20:36

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 20:24

It’s actually neither complex nor nuanced, unless you want to quite inhumanely blame the victims or focus on what is likely to be minor roles in the causes for suffering.

Some people can’t see the woods for the trees.

Really? I don't even know what that means. Are you saying there is only one reason why women get pregnant in war zones? Or only one reason why Palestinian women are getting pregnant in this war? If so please explain what that reason is.

MumOfManyAliases · 30/08/2025 20:41

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 15:04

This really does show lack of awareness of what has and is happening in Gaza. Perhaps this post also explains why some people think those criticising the situation in Gaza are simply being antisemitic. They may not be aware of what is apparent to most of the people world now.

This article has distressing pictures

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-08-21/ty-article-magazine/starvation-is-everywhere-virtual-tours-of-gaza-clinics-expose-the-scale-of-the-horror/00000198-ccb7-dcce-a5bf-cdb714fb0000

I’ve just looked up Haaretz.com and it’s described as a left-leaning newspaper, so not exactly impartial…

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 20:47

MumOfManyAliases · 30/08/2025 20:41

I’ve just looked up Haaretz.com and it’s described as a left-leaning newspaper, so not exactly impartial…

In Israel- maybe only a left leaning paper would probably choose to publish such clear concerns about starvation in Gaza?

Maybe that’s why some doubt the severity of what if happening in Gaza? Maybe people restrict their reading to news resources that don’t challenge their views.

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 20:54

@MumOfManyAliases do you deny the conditions of pregnant women in Gaza? That link is not the only one. Other sources are available if you doubt that one.

CaramelPecan · 30/08/2025 21:22

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 20:54

@MumOfManyAliases do you deny the conditions of pregnant women in Gaza? That link is not the only one. Other sources are available if you doubt that one.

Edited

It’s not just Gaza though is it? Conditions like these affect every pregnant woman in every war zone.

Even worse in this one as their own government calculatedly created these conditions for them and does not intend to surrender nor want them to be able to leave the war zone to get to safety.

Has Hamas ever called on neighbouring countries to allow any civilians, let alone pregnant women and children, safe refuge?

Hadalifeonce · 30/08/2025 21:32

Why doesn't Egypt open its boarder?

Martymcfly24 · 30/08/2025 21:43

Hadalifeonce · 30/08/2025 21:32

Why doesn't Egypt open its boarder?

Can you think of any reason at all why they might not wish to take 2 million starved/homeless/traumatized refugees on top of the 100,000 that have arrived since 7/10?

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 23:10

CaramelPecan · 30/08/2025 21:22

It’s not just Gaza though is it? Conditions like these affect every pregnant woman in every war zone.

Even worse in this one as their own government calculatedly created these conditions for them and does not intend to surrender nor want them to be able to leave the war zone to get to safety.

Has Hamas ever called on neighbouring countries to allow any civilians, let alone pregnant women and children, safe refuge?

VAWG happens in all societies.
War has a negative impact on women and girls.
The war in Gaza is having a negative impact on all Gazans.

What's your point?

Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 00:13

The point of this thread was to highlight the dire situation of pregnant Palestinian women
and to discuss any possible way mumsnetters as fellow women and mothers could help to alleviate their suffering.
I asked politely numerous times that it not be derailed so to get it back on track please see below a description of what Gazan women are experiencing

“Sometimes Israeli military action and displacement mean that women are giving birth in their tents or shelters with no medical help.
"If mothers are lucky enough to come to the hospitals to deliver their babies, women who give birth vaginally are typically being sent home three to four hours afterwards," says Sandra Adler Killen, an American registered emergency and paediatric nurse, who recently worked at the hospital in Gaza.
"Women who have had surgical C-sections [Caesareans] are discharged after 24 hours," she said.
"They're discharged to their homes quite often with babies who have conditions and various issues that in normal circumstances we would have stay at the hospital to get more support.
"Most babies, outside of Gaza, born under 32 weeks, under 1,400g (3.1lb), they would be in the NICU [neo-natal intensive care unit]. These babies are sent home. There's just no space for them

any suggestions for actions welcome. Any hasbara or racist talking points are not

OP posts:
Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 00:19

A further excerpt to show the dire situation

he charity ActionAid Ireland has shared testimonies from women in Gaza describing their experiences and the devastating effects of Israel’s violence and blockading of food and medical supplies.
One of the women, Nevin, who is two months pregnant, said: “There is no food and medical supplies are not available [or] the treatments and vitamins that every pregnant woman needs. Because of the lack of vitamins and adequate treatment, I miscarried twice.”

Duaa, another woman who is pregnant in Gaza, said: “My suffering during pregnancy is, first of all, the lack of food here. I get dizzy and tremble because of the lack of food.”
“There are no treatments or medications; we go to the [humanitarian] agency and come back [with nothing],” Duaa said.
A woman who spoke anonymously to ActionAid said that she has suffered from anaemia, gestational diabetes, high blood pressure and malnutrition during her pregnancy.
“I do not know what to [do to deal with] high blood pressure, diabetes, anaemia, dizziness, lack of food and lack of drink. This is our life in Gaza,” she said.
ActionAid has said that between 70 to 75% of the 300 pregnant and breastfeeding women who visit its partner hospital Al Awda in northern Gaza every day are suffering from malnutrition.
Doctors at the hospital have reported that pregnant women are experiencing serious complications due to starvation and the lack of medications caused by Israel withholding access to supplies.

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 31/08/2025 00:38

Hadalifeonce · 30/08/2025 21:32

Why doesn't Egypt open its boarder?

What does your research tell you?

Twiglets1 · 31/08/2025 06:37

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 20:47

In Israel- maybe only a left leaning paper would probably choose to publish such clear concerns about starvation in Gaza?

Maybe that’s why some doubt the severity of what if happening in Gaza? Maybe people restrict their reading to news resources that don’t challenge their views.

The Israel supporters seem very well read to me. It’s more some of the other side that appear to rely heavily on X & AI. They are the ones that should look at a wider range of sources, ideally ones not affected by algorithms.

I don’t think any of us doubt the severity of what is happening Gaza. The dispute is only about who we primarily blame for it - Hamas or the Israel government/IDF.

Twiglets1 · 31/08/2025 06:42

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 23:10

VAWG happens in all societies.
War has a negative impact on women and girls.
The war in Gaza is having a negative impact on all Gazans.

What's your point?

Their point was stated. That the uniquely awful thing about conditions for pregnant women in Gaza is that their own government calculatedly created the conditions for them & will not surrender.

Stripes56 · 31/08/2025 07:41

Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 00:13

The point of this thread was to highlight the dire situation of pregnant Palestinian women
and to discuss any possible way mumsnetters as fellow women and mothers could help to alleviate their suffering.
I asked politely numerous times that it not be derailed so to get it back on track please see below a description of what Gazan women are experiencing

“Sometimes Israeli military action and displacement mean that women are giving birth in their tents or shelters with no medical help.
"If mothers are lucky enough to come to the hospitals to deliver their babies, women who give birth vaginally are typically being sent home three to four hours afterwards," says Sandra Adler Killen, an American registered emergency and paediatric nurse, who recently worked at the hospital in Gaza.
"Women who have had surgical C-sections [Caesareans] are discharged after 24 hours," she said.
"They're discharged to their homes quite often with babies who have conditions and various issues that in normal circumstances we would have stay at the hospital to get more support.
"Most babies, outside of Gaza, born under 32 weeks, under 1,400g (3.1lb), they would be in the NICU [neo-natal intensive care unit]. These babies are sent home. There's just no space for them

any suggestions for actions welcome. Any hasbara or racist talking points are not

It’s incredibly sad mothers and babies aren’t getting their medical needs. Hopefully Israel will let the mobile maternity unit through. Doubt it, but would be happy to be proved wrong. They stopped a doctor taking in tubs of baby formula. US senators are saying Israel needs to let in more formula.

There are a million people in Gaza city, Israel has stopped the air drops and aid coming in from the north. They have stopped the humanitarian pauses. The Red Cross are concerned that people are not going to be able to evacuate. The IDF is saying they shouldn’t go in, but it’s invasion is proceeding.

““It is impossible that a mass evacuation of Gaza City could ever be done in a way that is safe and dignified under the current conditions,” ICRC President Mirjana Spoljaric said in a statement, warning that starving,disabled* *and injured Palestinians were incapable of moving.
“Such an evacuation would trigger a massive population movement that no area in the Gaza Strip can absorb, given the widespread destruction of civilian infrastructure and the extreme shortages of food, water, shelter and medical care,” added Spoljaric.”

CNN are already showing corpses of dead children.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/30/middleeast/airdrops-israel-halt-evacuation-gaza-city-intl

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 07:57

Can I point out @Everexpanding that the person who raised the question you didn't like was someone on your 'side' who said 'Wait for someone heartless and ignorant to come along and say why did women get pregnant?' Someone then asked basically why that was such a bad question. On a mothers site you know full well its a question that would spring to mind for many women. As I've said before the extraordinary pushback to that question was the problem. Instead of accusing other posters of ignorance, hate and being disgusting and shameful someone could have expressed empathy for women getting pregnant who didnt want to be, and acknowledged that that, of course happens. The conversation would never have developed as it did. But no, that was racist, dog whistles and victim blaming apparently.
But then to accuse others of derailing when responding to points, often questions made to them? Thats just ridiculous. And, nobody stopped anyone answering the question in your op about what we could do.
Then others accuse people of defending war crimes, which noone has, you are again accusing people of being racist, and now spreading Israeli government propaganda? That's unacceptable. You can't post inflammatory stuff and personal attacks and not expect people to respond.

Mercurial123 · 31/08/2025 08:09

Twiglets1 · 31/08/2025 06:37

The Israel supporters seem very well read to me. It’s more some of the other side that appear to rely heavily on X & AI. They are the ones that should look at a wider range of sources, ideally ones not affected by algorithms.

I don’t think any of us doubt the severity of what is happening Gaza. The dispute is only about who we primarily blame for it - Hamas or the Israel government/IDF.

So your opionion is that the people who share the same views as yourself are intelligent and widely read. Whilst the other side of the debate are lazy and misinformed. Got it lol.

ScrollingLeaves · 31/08/2025 08:29

MumOfManyAliases · 30/08/2025 20:41

I’ve just looked up Haaretz.com and it’s described as a left-leaning newspaper, so not exactly impartial…

Haaretz is an Israeli newspaper and just about the only way anyone will come anywhere near learning the truth of what is happening.

The israeli public are being protected by the media in general from hearing anything they’d rather not know about and Netanyahu lies and obfuscates.

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 08:32

Great @Mercurial123 you're back. Still waiting for an explanation for the interesting quote you posted but refused to explain. Do send by private message if you like as for some reason you don't want to share on the thread.

Twiglets1 · 31/08/2025 08:48

Mercurial123 · 31/08/2025 08:09

So your opionion is that the people who share the same views as yourself are intelligent and widely read. Whilst the other side of the debate are lazy and misinformed. Got it lol.

It is just my observation that the Israel supporters on here do not post long posts copy and posted from AI. Nor do they regularly post individual examples from X (though they may use X occasionally) and act as though they can be extrapolated to prove something in a wider sense.

Never did I say that the other side of the debate are lazy and misinformed. Some are well informed and put in a lot of effort to debate politely so that even if I don't agree with everything they say, I can understand their point of view.

Others make no effort at all to be polite but instead go out of their way to be unpleasant and make inflammatory comments.

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 08:50

ScrollingLeaves · 31/08/2025 08:29

Haaretz is an Israeli newspaper and just about the only way anyone will come anywhere near learning the truth of what is happening.

The israeli public are being protected by the media in general from hearing anything they’d rather not know about and Netanyahu lies and obfuscates.

But they have unrestricted access to the internet, just like us, don't they?

mids2019 · 31/08/2025 08:56

It's a double whammy for Palestian women, to be both in a war zone and to be subject to a misogynist society. It just seems pregnancy deferral is not an option for some women and I think it is legitimate to look at a culture that seems to view women as purely child bearing vessels and pressured into pregnancy at a time which is far from optimal.

ScrollingLeaves · 31/08/2025 09:01

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 15:04

This really does show lack of awareness of what has and is happening in Gaza. Perhaps this post also explains why some people think those criticising the situation in Gaza are simply being antisemitic. They may not be aware of what is apparent to most of the people world now.

This article has distressing pictures

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-08-21/ty-article-magazine/starvation-is-everywhere-virtual-tours-of-gaza-clinics-expose-the-scale-of-the-horror/00000198-ccb7-dcce-a5bf-cdb714fb0000

Thank you for this article. It is the most comprehensive and detailed I have seen.

Mercurial123 · 31/08/2025 09:02

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 08:32

Great @Mercurial123 you're back. Still waiting for an explanation for the interesting quote you posted but refused to explain. Do send by private message if you like as for some reason you don't want to share on the thread.

It's easy enough to work out yourself. I have zero interest in sending you a PM.