Why has the messaging on Gaza changed so suddenly in the last few weeks?

[RainSoakedNights]

It’s really, really nice to see. Too little too late, but it’s still something. But it’s gone from covering it as if everything that was happening in Gaza was normal, firing people for speaking out (Gary Lineker), to showing the reality of what is happening and the knock on effects that will affect generations. I think we’re potentially a few weeks away from this being called what it is - a genocide. But what has caused this change?

TBH You sound either like the 43% of Israelis polled who don't believe there is a famine and its made up Hamas propaganda or the 23% who believe there is a famine but don't care.

@Twiglets1 I ve often said i fully supported Israel's actions after 7/10, that Hamas are evil and that the focus should be on getting the hostages out alive asap.

Too often debates rage and the poor hostages are forgotten.

Let international journalists in, and we can then have a better picture, instead of Hamas or IDF distortions.

You keep saying “it’s a warzone” as if that explains or excuses everything but obliterated neighbourhoods, famine, and tens of thousands of civilians dead is not just “warzone consequences.” It’s a humanitarian catastrophe on a scale that’s visible from space. Every major UN agency has confirmed it. Pretending this is just business-as-usual war is a refusal to engage with the actual scale of what’s happened.

And on the “pro-Gaza” research point- take notice of a “pro-Israel political scientist”. Yes, if their research was rigorous, transparent, and held up under scrutiny. That’s the difference. The study in question involved independent survey methods and cross-checking thousands of names removed from records. It’s not about who did the research, it’s about how sound the methods are.

You reject all evidence because it involves Palestinians- while accepting anything that fits your viewpoint. Your only sources are the IDF.

'You keep saying “it’s a warzone” as if that explains or excuses everything but obliterated neighbourhoods, famine, and tens of thousands of civilians dead is not just “warzone consequences'

It is context isn't it. Horrible things happen when there is a conflict. I don't think the atrocities of Oct 7th are 'normal' in a war but here we are.

Calling the horrors of October 7th ‘not normal’ and then treating the resulting mass civilian deaths, famine, and destruction in Gaza as inevitable ‘context’ is a double standard.

Oh well. I’m sure you’re delighted to hear the news about Israel’s takeover of Gaza city. It was never about the hostages.

From the guardian:

The Hostages and Missing Families Forumhas accused the Israeli government of sentencing the remaining living Israeli hostages and captives in Gaza “to death”, reports the Times of Israel.
In a statement in reaction to the Israeli security cabinet’s plan to take over Gaza City, the group said:
Tonight, the Israeli government sentenced the living hostages to death and the fallen hostages to disappearance.
The cabinet decision to launch the process of occupying the [Gaza] Strip is an official declaration of the abandonment of the hostages, while completely ignoring the repeated warnings by the military echelon and the clear desire of most of the public in Israel.
According to the Israeli online newspaper, the Forum’s statement also accuses the government of acting against the national interest with a “foolish” move of “deception and unforgivable moral and security neglect” that brings Israel closer to a “colossal disaster for the hostages and [IDF] fighters.”
The Forum added that it was not too late and that the plan could be stopped, with the government seeking a deal to end the war and return all the hostages.
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34m ago09.15 BST
The Liberal Democrat leader, Ed Davey, has said it was “increasingly clear” that Benjamin Netanyahu’s “goal is ethnic cleansing” in Gaza and urged the UK prime minister, Keir Starmer, to stop the export of all UK arms to Israel and sanction the Israeli PM.
Davey said:
Netanyahu’s plans to occupy the whole of Gaza are utterly abhorrent – and it’s increasingly clear that his goal is ethnic cleansing.
This plan will only serve to wreak more devastation on the lives of millions of Gazans – whose homes and communities have already been destroyed – while endangering the lives of those hostages still held by Hamas.
Rather than sitting on its hands and issuing strongly worded statements, the UK government needs to take decisive action. Keir Starmer needs to stop the export of all UK arms to Israel – today – and sanction Netanyahu and his cabinet.

I am kind of agreeing with you that nothing is normal in a warzone. Oct 7th certainly wasn't.

Yes I'm pleased that the IDF are going to try and get rid of all the terrorists and give the gazans chance of a future and peace.

“Yes I'm pleased that the IDF are going to try and get rid of all the terrorists and give the gazans chance of a future and peace.”

We both know that’s not what the plan is or what’s going to happen.

So you're pleased that in all likelihood, the remaining hostages will either be killed by the IDF bombing etc or by Hamas.

The only time hostages have been released is via negotiation, the reality is Hamas will use the hostages as bargaining chips.

Shocking that people have so little concern for these hostages.

It seems to me that all actions carried against Palestinians are “C’est la guerre” while all actions carried out against Israel demonstrate that Palestinians deserve it.

You have completely dehumanized the residents of Gaza.
Both of us know that if the blockaded starving and dying people were Jewish, it would be ethnic cleansing and genocide. But with Palestinians it’s not the case- because their humanity is irrelevant to you.

As per usual, any attempt to have a discussion about a particular issue in Israel- Gaza war descends into a bitter race to prove who is more vile...
I would not worry, all the actors in this conflict are vile enough. They are all guilty enough. And all the victims, both sides of the border deserve much better than what they are getting from their "leaders". One can only hope that this lot gets swiftly replaced with real leadeeship towards long lasting peace.

Coming back to the original question, what do you think of the latest statements of some hardcore MAGA on IAPAC and Israel? They are clearly not happy. Trump does depend on these guys and he promised not to get US involved in any foreign wars.

'But with Palestinians it’s not the case- because their humanity is irrelevant to you'

The humanity of gazans should be important to us all, least of all hamas. It isn't though, hamas could not care less they are just pawns in their sick death cult mission. Tha is why the IDF need to get rid of hamas so the gazans can live in peace.

Lets get those 20 hostages out first

How? Israel has been trying to negotiate with Hamas for nearly 2 years now to get all the hostages home.

Very little progress made recently in getting the last 20 hostages out. For some reason Hamas seem to feel that they are still holding cards so won't agree to ceasefire proposals. Maybe it was the comments of people like Macron and Starmer, I don't know.

But judging by the condition of the 2 hostages Hamas showed videos of recently, they will die soon anyway if this is allowed to drift on for many more weeks and months.

@Gloriia didn't say she is pleased that in all likelihood the remaining hostages will be killed so why put such nasty words in her mouth?

All Israel supporters want nothing more than for the hostages to be returned home safe - it's what we've wanted all along.

What's shocking is that you would use the desperate plight of the hostages to try to score points by saying as an insult, "Shocking that people have so little concern for these hostages".

Speak for yourself because we have lots of concern for them.

You’re right it should be all of us. But you are in the group of people for whom it is not.

@Gloriia that's told you eh.🙄

I am astonished that my post was deleted so will try again, removing anything that could possibly be conceived as a personalized attack.

All Israel supporters want nothing more than for the hostages to be returned home safe - it's what we've wanted all along.
But Twiglets, can you understand why some people might view this sentence as disingenuous or perhaps even naive in the context Israeli government policy regarding both Gaza and the West Bank.
In particular the apparent lack of distinction between Hamas and non Hamas Palestinians, and the rising accusations of war crimes of various kinds.

When the hostages are returned- what happens then? Is it your expectation that the bombing will stop? I fear only an escalation.

Sorry you find it astonishing that personal attacks have consequences, that must make life quite difficult for you outside of Mumsnet.

I find it a simple enough statement that all Israel supporters want nothing more than the hostages to be returned home safe, nothing disingenuous about that.

Hamas have been told exactly what they need to agree to in order to end the war. Not just return the hostages but also disarm and leave Gaza.

'In particular the apparent lack of distinction between Hamas and non Hamas Palestinians, and the rising accusations of war crimes of various kinds.'

Yes it is appalling that hamas hide among civilians thus contributing to civilian deaths, the only time we see them wearing their hamas outfits is when they're parading hostages about.

'When the hostages are returned- what happens then? Is it your expectation that the bombing will stop? I fear only an escalation'

It will end when hostages are released and the terrorist group is destroyed. Then gazans can live in peace.

Again you’re asserting this I find it a simple enough statement that all Israel supporters want nothing more than the hostages to be returned home safe, nothing disingenuous about that. But it seems to me that there is significant evidence that this sentence is demonstrably not true.

If we can show that there are Israel supporters who wish for more than just the return of the hostages, would that then show to you that there are Israel supporters with ambitions beyond those which you personally support?

Just one final point- do you support Palestinians been given back that portion of Gaza which was under their control before the October 7th attack?

I don’t even know where to start unpicking this.

@ForrinMummy pro Israel supporters want the hostages returned home. We also want Hamas to disarm and leave Gaza.

And yes, I do support Palestinians being given back that part of Gaza which was under their control before 7/10. Personally, that is what I would like to see.

Not sure it will happen - Hamas have really fucked over the people they were supposed to be governing.