Why has the messaging on Gaza changed so suddenly in the last few weeks?

[RainSoakedNights]

It’s really, really nice to see. Too little too late, but it’s still something. But it’s gone from covering it as if everything that was happening in Gaza was normal, firing people for speaking out (Gary Lineker), to showing the reality of what is happening and the knock on effects that will affect generations. I think we’re potentially a few weeks away from this being called what it is - a genocide. But what has caused this change?

I am posting in good faith. You clearly disagree, which is fine. I am genuinely interested in why you believe it to be a ‘pack of lies’.

Usually when I ask questions like this, people just reply with insults. If you believe it to be untrue, please tell me why. We might not agree but I’m always open to understanding others’ perspectives.

Well, my family in Palestine, in the West Bank in particular will be most intrigued to realise that their lives are "considerably more peaceful" despite being ours and every family being marked by killing, torture and extra judicial imprisonment at the hands of Israeli forces. Though I guess there's an argument that at least they are not being literally starved and bombed to death by Israel, only sniped and detained and tortured.

The family members who lived through ethnic cleansing and land theft- not just in 1948 but also 1967 and now agricultural land taken off them without any compensation in 2014- will be a little offended for me to let them know that they are described as "ancient Palestinians".

But sure, Palestinians are anti Israel because of- checks notes- "Ishmael" and not because their land is continuously taken and their lives made a humiliation and oppression by the Israeli state, the Israeli settlers and the Israeli army who they must suffer__ from birth to death. 100% true, I will assure them.

See my post immediately below this one and you will see. I know it to be a pack of lies because it's theoretical talking points whereas I lived there, my family lives there, and what you write is simply false. If it is truly was in good faith then I hope you find some different sources to consider.

I am sorry for what you have experienced. But again, which part is a ‘pack of lies’?

1.The biblical account which is held to be true by a lot of people, on both sides of the war?
2.The term ‘Palestinian’ previously referring to people from the region being made up of Arabs, Jews and Christians?
3.The PLO and Hamas being terrorist organisations who have caused untold suffering both to people on both sides of the war?

I’ve spent a lot of time in the region, I’ve worked for years in Aid and I’ve consulted so many sources from both sides and this is where I’ve landed.

If we were in the same room, I would want to listen and have a reasonable discussion.

Really? Your family in Palestine? Riiiight. It may interest you to know that me and my husband are forbidden to visit our grandparents (stolen) homes in Yemen. My family were forcibly removed from MENA with the clothes on their back and TOLD to go “back to Palestine”. Your family will tell you that the moment refugee Jews arrived, they categorically refused to live alongside them. If they had agreed they’d be Israeli Arabs today like 2m others and not eternal victims or refugees. Everyone else is buying this BS. The truth will come out. With 2bn Muslims in the world and only 14m Jews it’s no wonder one side is succeeding in its propaganda to manipulate the west.

Palestinians have been expelled from Jordan, Lebanon and Kuwait over the years often because the then PLO brought trouble and terrorism to their door.

1. Palestinians have not been "expelled" in significant number from Jordan and Lebanon. The expulsion from Kuwait was specifically because of political machinations to do with the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, not "trouble and terrorism" of Palestinians: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Palestinians_from_Kuwait_(1990%E2%80%9391)

Many nearby countries are hesitant to accept refugees because Hamas, the latest terrorist iteration will likely set up a new power base and bring the ire of the West to their front door.

2. The main reason countries don't want to accept refugees is because they know Israel will keep the land they ethnically cleansed permanently, as they always have done, and Palestine will continue to shrink, and no country wants to be responsible for significant numbers of refugees from literally anywhere. It's disgusting that you imply Palestinians are worse as people and refugees than others.

3. Your whole biblical spiel is only used by Zionists and evangelicals to say "oh it's so hard it's intractable" etc etc. Palestinians are very clear. They simply want to live in their homes, on safety, with rights and dignity. You may have "worked in aid" but go hang out with actual Palestinians and that is what people yearn for.

Language around "a state was created" followed by "Hamas and the PLO invited suffering to Israel, causing retaliation" is simply disingenuous. How do you think a state "was created"? Have you heard of the Nakba? Of Deir Yassine and the many similar such massacres when a state "was created"? Of Palestinian homes and history being buried under non native pine forests to pretend it never existed? And yet it is shocking to you that people would resist against this, and "retaliation" is reasonable.

I'm not going to return to this thread. Everyone I know is exhausted and in pain watching people we know be starved to death by Israel. My best friend's cousin was bombed by Israel in the cafe in Gaza City last week. Her fault though I suppose, because Ishmael, and Hamas.

I’m not going to return to this thread. Everyone I know is exhausted and in pain watching people we know be starved to death by Israel. My best friend's cousin was bombed by Israel in the cafe in Gaza City last week. Her fault though I suppose, because Ishmael, and Hamas.

That is a shame you will not be returning. I think it epitomises the heart of the issue - no one is willing to have dialogue any more. It’s either insults or walking out (that’s the same on both sides).

Peace.

Peace.

But who cares if they're living in the lap of luxury, how does that justify the mass starvation of innocent people?

I don’t agree with Gazans not getting sufficient humanitarian aid.

But I do care about Hamas leaders living in luxury. They have gained some of their wealth from stealing money that was donated for Gazans and using it for themselves. They have also stolen humanitarian aid in the past and then sold it back to Gazans at a big profit. Why are they so rich? They shouldn’t be so rich while their people are living in poverty.

And beaureacratic taxes on their own people. And an extensive criminal network. All those skills could have been put to work to serve the people of Gaza.

Anyway back to the original point of the thread. It's interesting what you're saying because I've just been reading a thread on another forum that is talking about both Obama amd Hilary Clinton speaking out about this now, after being past supporters the Israeli government.

The speculation on there is that the it is now the point of no return, the 'endgame' for Gaza and that these politicians know it and are getting in with their condemnation before it's too late. And I said speculation before anyone comes for me.

Sigh … the Palestinians are such a deeply unlucky people. No one looking out for their best interests even before this current war.

Even if true, this is not the reason why innocent people are starving

I’m not denying that the Israel government needs to take responsibility for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza at the moment.

Hamas do too as the Palestinian government that planned & executed the massacre that triggered this current war. And because they could have agreed a ceasefire months ago and won’t get better terms than those that were offered to them months ago.

What do you mean the “endgame for Gaza”?

What are they suggesting in their speculation?

I've told you it was posters speculating on why the likes of Obama and Clinton are finally speaking up. One of the reasons given was they knew it was the 'endgame' or that they (the Israeli government) were gearing up for the 'endgame'. If I had to guess i would say that they are suggesting that they (Obama and Clinton) know that the genocide being enacted has pretty much been successful. That's my speculation on their speculation though. What do you think it means?

You keep repeating “endgame “ but I don’t know what you mean by that in terms of the war in Gaza.

'the genocide being enacted has pretty much been successful'

What on earth does that mean?

You know what it means

No I don’t 🤷🏼‍♀️

So Hamas stole the aid money and introduced very high taxes.... ?

Yet on the other hand, Gazans had many hospitals, schools, universities, health centres, nurseries... all staffed by well trained medics teachers etc

They must have once had these as the IDF has told us they have bombed these as Hamas were hiding in them....

Of course "some" aid money was stolen, billions have been poured into Gaza over the years, is inconceivable that it has not been and plenty spent on weapons too.

No argument from me that Hamas leaders live in luxury, same has happened in many African countries too.... should we stop aid because of this theft?

Isn't it odd though, that following international pressure, IDF/Netanyahu is opening up roads, allowing air drops..... but apparently, according some on here, there was no prior crisis, plenty of food and IDF not targeting babies.... all Hamas propaganda, fed to us by Western terrorist supporting doctors

Cannot be both.

I would think it means that most of the vixtims of genocide, in this case Palestinians in Gaza, are dead. Which of course is nowhere remotely near close to the truth.

What would you call the mass starvation of thousands and thousands of innocent people by the Israeli government?

Both what? Your post is, I'm afraid incomprehensible.