To think UN should now be in Gaza as a peacekeeping force

[ArtfulGoldWriter]

Seriously, when even the Daily Express are even calling mass forced starvation and putting pictures like this on their front pages.

Surely the UN could act as a peacekeeping force and stop this insanity?

Its obscene.

You know this minimising and sneery 'NO!' Stuff didn't go down well when Dawn French whined it don't you?

Let's try and debate without yeah but no but shall we?

Because calmly refusing to entertain repeated misinformation and dehumanising tropes is apparently “whining” now?

You’re welcome to discuss real facts with me. However, I’m no longer going to engage with you as that’s clearly not what you’re doing.

We disagree, that is how it goes on a chat forum If it was all straightforward there wouldn't be a conflict would there?

Saying 'but Oct 7th' 'No!' etc rather minimises a very complex situation now doesn't it?

'I’m no longer going to engage with you as that’s clearly not what you’re doing'

And yet your very long post at 9.20 seemed to exclusively quote me?

It's fine not to engage with me, it must be challenging when some of us inconveniently dispute media stories coming from hamas. Perhaps start by desisting to constantly quote me though?

This is such rubbish. There are journalists affiliated with international press organisations who send out raw footage on patchy internet. Do you think Hamas is operating some kind of advanced technological surveillance of mobile phone IP addresses in a warzone and turning up to shanty encampments to arrest people who post off-message?

Have you not seen any of the appalling testimony from British doctors?

Exactly.

Given it was the Bbc and the APP that released the statement, among other international news organisations, nothing you say here has any relevance.

Apart from once again to deflect from the issue of children being starved in Gaza.

That response completely misunderstands how censorship works under authoritarian regimes, especially in Gaza, where Hamas maintains tight, low-tech control over journalists and information flow.

No one is claiming Hamas uses “advanced IP tracking” or spy satellites. That’s a strawman.

All local journalists in Gaza are known to Hamas. They are required to register with the government press office to operate legally. This isn’t some shadowy surveillance network, it’s a paper list, and anyone who steps out of line risks losing their credentials, facing intimidation, or worse.

There is well documented and undisputed evidence showing Hamas use violence, imprisonment, threats, torture and even murder against journalists who will not comply. The same applies to all journalists, even if working for foreign media.

Visiting foreign journalists are escorted, monitored, and often rely on local fixers who are themselves under Hamas pressure. The moment a fixer is threatened or jailed, the foreign journalist loses access - or learns to self-censor. That's a best-case, as foreign journalists have openly reported their lives being threatened if they tell the truth.

For example journalists in gaza were threatened not to report on the anti hamas protests that tool place recently. Similarly foreign journalists who witnessed Hamas firing missiles from civilian sites like hospitals during the last intifada were threatened, one so seriously he took time to conceal his identity.

There are documented cases of journalists being beaten or detained for covering anti-Hamas protests or interviewing the “wrong” people. Several Gaza-based reporters have spoken out after fleeing, describing harassment, threats, and constant fear of retaliation. See the Committee to Protect Journalists and Reporters Without Borders, this isn’t speculation.

Even raw footage “on patchy internet” doesn’t make it out cleanly. If Hamas sees it circulating and links it to someone locally, that person may be punished. And people know it. That’s how censorship works: not by constant arrests, but by creating a climate of fear where people censor themselves.

So yes - Hamas doesn’t need advanced tech to control the press. It just needs fear, proximity, and total authority. And in Gaza, it has all three.

Yes. That does not detract from the conversation at hand, which is that Gaza does not have freedom of press or free speech, and is a society under strict censorship and therefore the full story of what's going on is simply not accessible.

As I have said above, many British doctors have worked in Gaza and have reported what they have seen. Have you not seen any of their testimony? It's horrific

It really does detract from your basic message which is that Israel somehow isn’t responsible here- despite the blockade on aid that they have openly discussed and cheered and voted on in the Knesset.

The fact that the BBC reports from Gaza doesnt mean there’s press freedom. For starters they get almost all their info from locals. And local Gazan journalists cannot leave easily, have families and homes in Gaza, and depend on Hamas permission to work. That alone puts immense pressure on them to self-censor.

To work legally, Gazan journalists must register with Hamas's Government Media Office, which means the authorities know exactly who they are. If they report something Hamas doesn’t like, they risk intimidation, arrest, or worse.

Even when foreign journalists visit, they rely on local fixers, translators, and drivers, all of whom live in Gaza. If a fixer helps a foreign reporter document something Hamas wants hidden, that fixer could be punished. So even foreign reporters self-censor to protect their teams.

Having reporters in Russia or Iran doesn’t mean those governments don’t intimidate or suppress reporting. The existence of journalists isn’t evidence of free journalism.

Even the BBC itself has acknowledged restrictions in Gaza. International reporters have openly stated they can’t show Hamas fighters, rocket launches, or military activity for fear of reprisal. Many have only admitted this after leaving Gaza, because while they're there, their local fixers, sources, and their own safety are at risk. The Committee to Protect Journalists, Reporters Without Borders, and many others have reported on this climate of fear and censorship. These are not fringe sources - they’re the international press community itself calling it out.

The simple demonstrable fact is that it's not possible for you to get balanced information out of Gaza. Everything you get is, by definition, Hamas propaganda.

As for your second point -calling any mention of Hamas press suppression a "deflection from starving children" is dishonest.

Two things can be true at once:

Children are suffering horrifically in Gaza- no one is denying that.

And Hamas has created a system that controls what the world can see and hear from inside Gaza.

Once you are able to be intellectually honest and acknowledge the second fact, you might also find the capacity to consider how it relates to your perception of the first.

Pretending the second doesn’t exist doesn't help the children - it just means the full truth, including how Hamas exploits that suffering for propaganda, and even goes out of its way to manufacture it, is hidden.

It astonishes me that people can blether on about "Israeli propaganda" with a straight face while refusing to acknowledge the basic demonstrable truth that Gazas entire press apparatus exists only to produce anti Israel propaganda and by very definition cannot produce anything which offers a remotely honest or balanced view.

@Voxon that's interesting but what do you think Hamas are blocking that changes the narrative here? Anti-Hamas protests? Hamas stealing food? Hamas preventing food from being distributed? The IDF is getting in and out and feeding itself, nothing Hamas is doing is preventing that so why can't the IDF get in and out and feed children?

Most of the world has moved far beyond the politics now and just sees soldiers who are not starving and children who are. Israel is saying the food is in Gaza but Hamas won't let it be distributed, well fine, bring more food, open more distribution points, use the IDF to distribute it.

Everyone can see that Israel could fix this if they wanted, Hamas or not. Everyone can see Israel doesn't want to. No amount of suppressing a few videos of a Hamas blocking food distribution (if these even exist) will change that.

I didn’t quote you.

I just went through the thread and compiled any comments which were false statements (with no evidence to back them up) or were dehumanising.

'The fact that the BBC reports from Gaza doesnt mean there’s press freedom'

Exactly. It's like when the BBC say '200 killed today by the IDF according to hamas led health ministry'. I bet hamas piss themselves laughing.

You’ve repeatedly dodged the question - four times now - so at this point it’s fair to conclude one of two things: either you genuinely don’t acknowledge that Gaza’s press functions as a Hamas-controlled, anti-Israel propaganda machine, or you do acknowledge it but hate Israel so much you’re willing to overlook it.

If its the former then you're denying the undisputed evidence of your eyes and ears. Many people do that, and that's up to them, but it certainly renders any opinions that have as garbage because they're based on denying facts.

And if it’s the latter, you’ve put so much trust in the narrative of a jihadist terror organisation that you don’t even stop to consider that maybe this contributes to why you hate israel so much.

You dismiss the statements of a democratic state and even the U.S. government as “propaganda,” yet accept without question the messaging of an authoritarian regime that silences dissent and tortures and threatens journalists.

Wowza.

Didn't one Dr say the only military people she saw were the IDF, seemingly oblivious to the fact that hamas hide among civilians or hide in their tunnels so I'd take anything 'British doctors' have to say with a pinch of salt.

the cognitive dissonance on here is unreal

@Voxon Reflecting on this I think what you're trying to say is that there is no starvation because Israel says so and it has a "free press". But it's not the press that it's reporting from Gaza, it's the IDF. You have said yourself that only journalists allowed by Hamas report from Gaza, I don't think that would include Israelis. So then you're asking us to believe statements from the IDF against those of hundreds of relief organisations, doctors, and citizen reporters.

Would the IDF in a thousand years admit to causing a famine in Gaza? If not then their denials aren't really credible.

The conversation started because a poster dismisses everything that rebuffs her narrative as "Israeli propaganda".

As I understand it to be based on reports from the Israeli government, the US government and people on the ground, including those running the new aid program is that the facts are as follows.

Hamas has a tight grip on Gaza because it controls food and resources, and it was taking aid given for free and hijacking it or selling it and a key part of breaking their hold on Gaza is breaking this control.

UNRWA is complicit in enabling this, with thousands of anti Israeli staff on the ground working for decades to divert aid into terrorist hands, conceal war crimes (such as firing missiles from hospitals) even to participate in acts of terrorism. As a result, Hamas terrorists have become billionaires using humanitarian aid.

This isn't conjecture. This organisation (UNRWA) has been defunded and publicly censured for this, so understandably Israel does not want to cooperate with them further. The entire world should unequivocally support that.

Israel is therefore working with the Americans to distrubute food themselves, and while they are growing in capacity they cannot do it fast enough. They are further hindered by the UN and NGOs refusing to work with them.

Meanwhile more aid is going into Gaza than any conflict in history. But teamwork is needed to distribute it. If the UN and NGOs refuse to work with Israel and America, then they are complicit with starving Gazans

I'm confident this is true, because images have been shared by the Israeli government and ratified by the US government.

The UN could be honest and say their problem is that distribution of food is very dangerous (which it is) and none of their teams feel safe distributing it unless it's with the blessing of Hamas.

That's the raw truth, but rather than tell it they continue to blame Israel despite Israel making unprecedented efforts to get food and supplies to the population of their enemy.

Hamas' survival depends on them ensuring Israeli is hated, and blamed and fails at their aid efforts. They are doing everything in their power, with the help of all the agencies that actively want to end Israels existence to undermine Israel and keep themselves in power.

The demonstrable facts are that there are hundreds of trucks waiting to be delivered and the people who are meant to deliver them cannot or will not do it.

The IDF is a military body - not equipped to run large-scale food, water, and medical logistics for 2+ million civilians. It doesn’t have the infrastructure, personnel, or mandate to do it all. That's why even the US delivers via NGOs or the UN.

The question here is why you're not demanding they do their job?

'Would the IDF in a thousand years admit to causing a famine in Gaza? If not then their denials aren't really credible.'

Why would they want to cause a famine?! The aid is there, the un and hamas need to get it out. Why is the un so utterly useless?

It is far more beneficial for hamas to make gazans suffer then blame it on Israel isn't it, as we are seeing some people fall for it. What possible reason does Israel have to starve people?

I'm not going to debate this. No one believes that Israel couldn't fix this issue if it wanted to. The rest is irrelevant.

And while I'm here, (I've broken a self-imposed ban on commenting on things on the internet which I will revert to after this post), going back to an earlier poster I agree that Israel has destroyed its future with this war. The younger western generation have mainly a negative view of Israel which will tell in 20-30 years as they rise into positions of power. The members of the IDF will never recover themselves from what they will have done and seen in Gaza. And the demographic time bomb of the religious right which has already resulted in the prolonged nature of this conflict will tear the country apart internally and lose it liberal Jewish support externally.

I'm quite certain there is starvation.

I'm also quite certain there's Israeli hostages being starved, tortured and sexually abused in tunnels somewhere.

I'm also certain it could end today if Hamas gave back those hostages and relinquished power.

I'm also certain more humanitarian aid has gone into any conflict zone in history and that there's been a massive failure in getting it to people.

I'm also certain that Gazan civilians should have been evacuated two years ago so the IDF could have finished Hamas and disabled the tunnel network.

I'm also certain Hamas have become literally billionaires from stealing aid.

I'm also certain Hamas is deliberately wanting its civilians to suffer and die.

I'm also certain Hamas and other militant groups hijack aid convoys, steal aid, hoard it, sell it and murder people trying to deliver it or use it.

I'm also certain UNRWA and by turn the UN are complicit in the entire thing.

I'm also certain Israel and the US are trying to deliver aid to people but are being sabotaged at every turn.

I'm also certain Hamas publicly threatened to punish anyone involved in distribution or use of this aid and I've seen videos of citizens being tortured.

I'm also certain hundreds of trucks are festering in the sun right now because the people who distribute aid in every conflict are refusing to do so now.

So I'm frankly a little baffled about how logical people ignore all these facts to conclude Israel is starving Gaza.

Even if that were true, then the UN or Gazas own government can solve the problem overnight, so why isn't that bothering you?

Sorry one more post, to be clear: I absolutely believe in the right of Israel to exist peacefully. I just think that this war has very much made that goal harder to achieve.