To think UN should now be in Gaza as a peacekeeping force

[ArtfulGoldWriter]

Seriously, when even the Daily Express are even calling mass forced starvation and putting pictures like this on their front pages.

Surely the UN could act as a peacekeeping force and stop this insanity?

Its obscene.

One of the Palestinian families I’ve spoken to said that (in the south) “there are gangs in large numbers, all armed in the south, and they work with Israel.” I didn’t really understand what they meant and thought that something had been lost in translation. Now this makes sense.

I've heard similar from Palestinians in the North. My friend told me that the gangs tried to raid a warehouse twice but were stopped by the security that the owner had hired. After failing, less than an hour later it was bombed by the IDF.

I've heard of this happening, but I didn't have any proof of this (the connection between gang raids and warehouses being bombed). I wonder if this is what happened with the many other warehouse/aid storage bombings.

"The Gaza Holocaust"? That's sick.

People are also dying in Sudan, and no one gives a shit about that. Its a shame that the world cannot care for all people's equally. Yes 2 wrongs dont make a right, but one is agonised over and one is completely ignored. Both sets of people matter.

Some people not only do not care about people dying in Gaza but they actively spend time going online trying to minimise it or pretend it isn’t happening. Have a look through the boards and you will see many examples.

The boards are full of people defending Israel and the 20k+ dead children, saying that people are not really dying or that it’s their own fault their dying or that there aren’t that many people dying or “what do you expect it’s a war” or “there are people dying elsewhere so why do you care” or “Palestinians use their children as human shields” or there is no famine or there is no genocide or what about Russia, Ukraine, Syria, China. Why should any of us care about human life? Why should we care if a child dies when children die all the time?

A child in Gaza is not less dead because a child dies in Sudan or Ukraine. A child is not less murdered or mutilated because a child somewhere else was murdered or mutilated. A soldier in Israel is not less a murderer because a soldier in Russia, Sudan, Syria or elsewhere murdered people. A murder is a murder, a murderer is a murderer. There is no washing away a crime by talking about other crimes. One genocide does not cancel out another genocide. One dead child does not bring another dead child back to life.

Except no one on these boards has said people aren’t really dying or it’s their fault they’re dying or that there aren’t many people dying.

Why make up stuff? It dilutes your point when your post is full of things no one said as well as things people did say - for example pointing out that yes, it is to be expected that people will die in wars. Not normally so many civilians, that is the tragedy of this particular war.

Never forget Hamas could have surrendered at any time. They are still refusing to demilitarise & still causing more unnecessary bloodshed in Gaza.

Your own word @Twiglets1

“are you saying now, that all of the IDF are war criminals? All just in the army to kill children and innocent civilians.
More dead each day is what happens in wars.”

”I think in other wars people tend to assume that children dying do so in a collateral damage sort of way. Sounds harsh but what I mean is we assume children aren't targeted (as they aren't military), instead they unfortunately get killed by being caught up in gunfire or bombing.
I've never known a war being reported where so many people jump on a bandwagon to say the children getting killed must have been targeted. “

“By "not much evidence" of famine I mean that if you look at the many images coming out of Gaza every day - crowd scenes etc - the people generally look like they are in a normal weight range. Not overweight as many of us are in the West are but a healthy looking weight anyway.”

So? I didn’t say that people aren’t really dying or it’s their fault or there aren’t many people dying.

But Hamas! Well that makes all the child deaths 100% okay!

There have been so many posts that questioned how many people died, how they died and said the figures were likely fabricated. Countless posts saying there was no famine, no blockade, plenty of food but it’s all being stolen by Hamas, that those that died of starvation have underlying conditions and would have died anyway. There were countless posts using words like Pallywood, saying that the dead were actors, that there was indisputable proof that those body bags moved, that there was proof that the dead kids were seen alive somewhere days later. Honestly sick sick posts. There have been many many posts that try to blame the Palestinians for their own murders or claim that they were all terrorists, that kids were shot in self defence, that we shouldn’t feel sad for them because people die in wars.

These posters never say that murderers should not murder, that war is not an excuse, that the death of a child is always wrong no matter where it happens. That a murderer is a murderer no matter what their religion, race or country of residence.

On a side note, how do you feel about all those farmers who have lived for generations in the West Bank suddenly receiving eviction notices. Is that okay?

Another thing no one said ( are we making a list) is that the existence of Hamas makes child deaths ok.

It doesn’t - but it’s important not to forget the role Hamas have played in the suffering of Gazans, as well as Israelis.

No, it’s not ok for farmers in the West Bank to receive eviction notices.

There are countless examples online of people using terms like “Pallywood” and claiming the dead are actors - including a thread saying Hind was either killed by the Hamas or is an actress and still alive. Mumsnet will only let me include 5 screenshots but search Pallywood and you will see! Including a shocking thread where people questioned if Hind was really dead and then said if she was Hamas must have killed her - it could not possibly have been the IDF who knowingly murdered a small child.

By saying that Hamas could have demilitarised and instead have caused unnecessary bloodshed you are taking away the responsibility for blowing up children from the IDF. If an IDF soldier shoots a child in the head or limbs (as many many have done), or shoots a child with a drone (as many have done) or drops a bomb on a child (as many have done) the person responsible for the killing are the murderers who pulled those triggers and the murderers who ordered people to pull
those triggers. Hamas are responsible for murder, torture, rape - the IDF are too but on a much much larger scale with a body count of over 20k kids. There is no excuse for child murder. None. The documentary on ITV was quite enlightening when the IDF soldier said that some IDF soldiers join up because they really want to kill arabs. There are people in the IDF that just want to kill Palestinians - this was witnessed and reported by other IDF soldiers.

Hamas do need to take responsibility for the devastation of Gaza just as much if not more than the IDF @RandomWordsThrownTogether

If 7/10 hadn’t happened, what came after wouldn’t have happened.

You say I’m taking responsibility away from the IDF but I think people take the responsibility away from Hamas

You are completely right. Just a few days ago someone was scoffing at the idea that 20000 children died, they were wondering where all of the mass graves were.

I cannot count the amount of times I have seen people here post that disgusting quote from Golda Meir about 'Arabs' not loving their children as much as they hate Israel like they are imparting some kind of wisdom on us instead of spreading a racists vile views. The narrative that Palestinians just don't love their children enough, not like Israelis, and that's why they have died in such huge numbers( definitely nothing to do with the equivalent of 7 nuclear bombs having been dropped) has been very prevelant on here.

I don't know how anyone can deny that the things you have posted about have happened here.

Really Palestinian children have been killed and maimed by the Idf since long before 7/10, just at a less obscene pace

Again you are taking responsibility away from what Hamas did, like 7/10 wasn’t that big a deal. But just look at the results of their decision to attack Israel on that date.

Even when you are mentioning 7/10, you only use the word “obscene” in relation to the IDF not to Hamas.

You absolve them of all blame.

How many innocent children did Hamas kill on October 7th?
Hamas killed 38 children,

How many innocent children has Israel killed since?
Israel has killed 20,000 children and counting,

I have said before that I don’t condone the actions of Hamas, Nobody is on here denying the actions of Hamas were crimes
Yes the number of people Israel killed is obscene

Yes, it’s utterly and totally outrageous.

It’s not just about the numbers it’s also about intent. Hamas killed as many children & adults as they could on 7/10. And are not shy about saying they would do it again if they got the opportunity. Is that not obscene?

If the IDF had the same intent then there would have been even more casualties.

Yes the question of intent is important, why did one of the most sophisticated armies in the world, capable of pinpoint targetting decide to drop humongous bombs on a corralled civilian population???

Why not answer my question about Hamas intent being obscene?

Because I already have and discussion with someone who can”t acknowledge the obscenity of 20,000 dead children is pointless

No you have not answered my question about whether you consider Hamas intent to be obscene.

Whereas I have said it before and willingly say it again that thousands of Palestinian children dying in war is of course obscene.

Dying 🙄 Like they all just fainted one day and never got back up again. The word you are looking for is killed.

Killed if you prefer that word... we're talking about children dying in war so yes of course they are being killed.

Now perhaps @Everexpanding can answer my question about whether they consider Hamas intent to be obscene.