At long last the police are cracking down on hard marches

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6mjg13dz6o

I think it's great that the police are starting to take supporting terrorists seriously and are now using anti terror legislation to start making the arrests that should have happened some time ago. As predicted as the Gaza conflict has ground on there are more and more pro Palestine looks prepared to flirt with proscribed groups.

Maybe some halal time or fines will make these people think a bit more.

It became fashionable to hate Israel not long after 7/10. There are two factions: those that know why they are hating and its end purpose, and those who haven't a clue. The latter can say as much as they want, that they aren't chanting for death; guilty by association. The perfect illustration was Glastonbury and the BBC stupidly didn't anticipate this. The consecutive spineless governments do nothing to call for emergency amendment to assembly legislation. It's time these hate marches were stopped because the tail is wagging the dog.

You take the word of terrorists, who carried out such a pinpointed slaughter of a race of people they want rid of? You can see into the minds of lefty liberals and it ain't too clever. The most ironic part is that you insist this is exactly what Israel is doing.

I think the actions of the IDF would count as terrorism.

They now want to build a camp to put all the Gazans in... i suppose that would make it easier for them to bomb the Palestinians.

People are allowed, atm, to have different opinions to you but as usual the far right name call..... lefty liberals!

Exactly ... people taking the word of Hamas who has denied its forces committed sexual violence against women or mistreated female hostages.

However, a UN mission concluded in March 2024 that there were "reasonable grounds" to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attack in multiple locations, including rape and gang rape, and that there was "convincing information" that hostages had been subjected to sexual violence, including rape and sexualised torture.

Now we have the Dinah report. The report confirms that Hamas systematically used rape and sexual violence as tools of war during the October 7 massacres and is the first to present a legal roadmap for identifying and pursuing justice for the use of sexual violence as a weapon of warfare, which constitutes a crime against humanity.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5369592-sexual-violence-as-a-weapon-of-war-during-october-7-massacre

OK, let's call them progressives, who have swallowed Hamas propaganda. Progressives, who are doing exactly what was predicted.

The idea of the "humanitarian city" proposed by Israel Katz is highly controversial and may never be implemented.

Some commentators have suggested the real aim of floating the plan was to increase pressure on Hamas during ongoing ceasefire talks, while also appeasing right-wingers in the cabinet who oppose any truce.

The military had been asked to put together a detailed proposition, but Netanyahu dismissed it as far too costly and complicated, two Israeli officials who were present said, and ordered them to come up with something cheaper and faster.

An Israeli military source said it was a complex initiative that required intricate logistics for infrastructure such as sewage, sanitation, medical services, water and food supplies.

While I don't agree with the idea of a "humanitarian city" (and many within Israel don't agree with the idea either) no one apart from you has suggested it is proposed to "make it easier for them to bomb the Palestinians". The idea being proposed is that the new city or camp is built during the 60 day ceasefire and is done to separate citizens from Hamas via screening as they enter.

Your comment is hyperbole and reveals your bias that Israel are pure evil.

So 10s of 1000s of people haven't been killed in Gaza, medics not targeted, the plan to put the population into a camp... all Hamas propaganda.

Why should we take the word of the IDF without any question? remember the outright lies they told when they gunned down a medical team?

The UN you now quote, say the Hamas estimates on the numbers killed, are accurate.

The violence and sexual crimes committed on Oct 7th, do not justify the collective punishment of the Gazans.... it really shouldn't a point of contention.

I agree that the violence and sexual crimes committed on Oct 7th do not justify the collective punishment of Gazans.

But they do justify Israel going to war with Hamas and that is what Gaza is now, a war zone with much of it reduced to rubble and many civilian casualties.

Israel did not set out to punish civilians, it set out to destroy Hamas and thousands of civilians have died as a result of that. Israel couldn't destroy Hamas operatives without civilians deaths because of how Hamas fight in amongst their people and hide out under civilian buildings, even hospitals.

Violent crimes? I didn't get past such an understated description of a massacre.

Thats where we disagree, i think Israel very much is prepared to see the deaths of Gazans, in their pursuit of Hamas.

Did they set out, at the outset, to kill 58k people and destroy every aspect of civilian life?
I don't know but it appears that Israel is prepared to see a rising toll of deaths and will use any method, inc cutting food supplies and medical support in pursuit of their aims.

In any case, the numbers who have signed up for Hamas is higher now then pre 7/10, so its a failed plan.

Btw calling posters who you disagree with of hating Israel is wrong, it is like you being told you hate Palestinians.

It is possible to hate the actions of Hamas and the Israeli government, who as you say, do not represent all Israelis.

"the Home Secretary must reasonably believe that it is concerned in terrorism. That means that the organisation commits or participates in terrorism, it prepares for terrorism, it promotes or encourages terrorism, or it is otherwise concerned in terrorism."

So the home secretary reasonably believes it do they. Pull the other one it has bells on it.

The 58k aren't all civilians are they? No one knows the exact breakdown but it's important to state that many of that number were Hamas operatives so were very much who the IDF did set out to kill. The others were not.

I don't generally accuse people I disagree with on these threads of hating Israel.
Only those that make up stuff that isn't true to make them sound like monsters like They now want to build a camp to put all the Gazans in... i suppose that would make it easier for them to bomb the Palestinians.

Agree though that I should have said Your comment is hyperbole and reveals your bias that the IDF (rather than Israel) are pure evil.

I apologize for that.

Though in a post above you do then say @Alexandra2001 i think Israel very much is prepared to see the deaths of Gazans, in their pursuit of Hamas.

When you equally should have said "the IDF" or "the Israeli government" not "Israel" so I think you should apologize too.

Totally correct, i too apologise, the Israeli Govt/IDF is not Israel, lazy language.

Yes many of the 58k would be Hamas but i do think it is justified to kill an entire family to get one Hamas terrorist, even if they are his own family.

But as i said, its a failed strategy, Hamas has apparently more members now then ever.

Thank you, it's easy to fall into lazy language but we shouldn't as you rightly pointed out.

And I don't think that killing an entire family to get one Hamas terrorist is justified either. I think some of the actions of the IDF have been disproportionate.

Though it may be justified in certain cases (in my opinion) like if the family are all adults and the family of Hamas terrorists because then it can reasonably be assumed that they are supporters of Hamas terrorism too.

I don't feel bad for the adult children of Hamas leaders who have been targeted by the IDF for example as I assume they have been radicalized too and celebrated October 7th. I don't feel sorry for the wives of Hamas leaders as I assume they supported October 7th too.

I think assumptions are not good.

The IDF have killed many families, young and old, who knows if they supported Hamas actions.

But either way, the policy has failed, all they've done is increase support for Hamas.

One day, the war will end, the hatred some Palestinians have towards Israel will not go away, it will just lead to further cycles of violence.

That is on them whether the hatred some Palestinians have towards Israel will ever go away. The cycle of violence is a choice which so far, has not led the Palestinians to any kind of happiness or security.

Israel and Germany are allies now, despite WW2, so are the UK and Germany. Who would have thought that would be possible? Better choices were made than to keep up a cycle of hatred and violence.

We all kept our sovereign countries though didn't we.

I think if the Palestinians had their own independent state, it could happen but that seems to be as far away as ever.

We did but I wouldn’t want to minimise the suffering of Jews during the events up to and including WW2.

Don’t distort my words and thoughts …. Do you seriously think I’m stupid enough to fall for these little digs on these threads.

What little digs? It's called exchanging opinions.

Palestinians never had a sovereign country.

You mean an independent state without security measures put in place by Israel as opposed to Gaza which was exactly that?

So no land, air and sea blockade, Palestinians allowed in and out of Israel at will, no checks for armaments, ingredients for bomb making and weapons in imports etc, tunnels left as they are, no using drones to monitor them etc?

OK but how will the Palestinians assure Israel there will be no more terrorism though, especially after what they were capable of doing, and filmed themselves enjoying and celebrating doing while shouting ‘Allah Akbar’, on Oct 7th?

Pinkie promise?

Is it OK, in your view, for Israelis to feel the same after Oct 7th, the constant rocket bombardment, and all the previous terrorist attacks?

@Alexandra2001 this increase in support for Hamas, where is that coming from?

It's just a coincidence that this 'fashionable hate' for Israel grows in line with the number of children they kill, maim and starve. It's not like they could at all be connected. It's just 'fashion'.