At long last the police are cracking down on hard marches

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6mjg13dz6o

I think it's great that the police are starting to take supporting terrorists seriously and are now using anti terror legislation to start making the arrests that should have happened some time ago. As predicted as the Gaza conflict has ground on there are more and more pro Palestine looks prepared to flirt with proscribed groups.

Maybe some halal time or fines will make these people think a bit more.

That hasn’t answered where people want them to go at all. Or do you want them to stay in a desolate war zone? Hamas don’t wear uniforms. They need to separate the ‘civilians’ so they can be made safe.

No, I do not think Egypt should take them and I don’t blame them. Some people have long memories.

Now where have I heard the phrase ‘re educate’ before? Interesting. 🤔

That's interesting, but seems rather out of date. When were the data compiled? It mentions Muslims making up 0.5% of the UK population, whereas the 2021 Census gives this as 6% (15% in London), which by 2050 (assuming current trends continue) is projected to reach about 19%. This compares to ~0.4% of the UK population being Jewish, as of the 2021 Census.

https://islamchannel.tv/mcb-report-on-census-data-shows-progress-and-challenges-facing-british-muslims/

I'm not presenting these facts by way of complaint: I enjoy the presence of peaceful Muslim communities in our country. Nervousness of radical Islam is surely rational, though, given that it is acknowledged as the greastest security threat to the UK? Aren't you nervous of these elements too?

But that's not the point. I can't share links to Statistica because you need to register an account to view the data, but perhaps you can look it up yourself: although Muslims do unfortunately experience racism, antisemitic incidents in the UK are insanely disproportionate by comparison. My worry is that that marches achieve nothing useful for Palestinians, and simply feed into this terrifying rise in hate crimes against the small and increasingly vulnerable Jewish population of the UK.

I posted the definition which is what was asked for.

The rise in antisemitism or the rise in concern for Palestinians who were being brutalised more and more by Israel. 2023 the bloodiest year for Palestinian children before Oct 7. That was ignored and still is ignored by the pro Israel squad, what does that say to you? Still to this day I don't think I have a single pro Israel person bring up those deaths of their own accord, what does that say to you about the value they put on Palestinians children lives? Israelis cheering as bombs blow apart children and their families, Israelis making up tiktok trends laughing at the suffering their government is inflicting on children, Israelis trashing aid so children can't eat, Israelis rampaging through Palestinian streets calling for their deaths, Israelis burning their villages, Israelis dancing in dead and displaced Palestinian women's underwear yet the pro Israel lot march for them. What does that tell you?

Also Israelis protesting for soldiers to have the right to rape prisoners with impuinty.

It tells me you have a very one-sided newsfeed that uses an algorithm to feed you only the information that you have already shown an interest in.

That is not to say that these things aren't dreadful, but it oversimplifies the story.

Does it? What is the other side to Israeli men dancing in the underwear of dead Palestinian women? What is so complex about it that means it is oversimplified. I'm hear to listen, tell me what the context is that I need to know about Israeli men dancing in the underwear of dead Palestinian women.

Sorry for the daft question, but what do you believe happened on 7 October? Do you think it wasn't as horrific and savage as all that because rape kits etc weren't deployed in the chaos of identifying charred and dismembered bodies? Do you think that the wild jubilation in the streets of Gaza (Shani Louk's mangled naked body being paraded and spat on comes to mind, but there are plenty of other videos) were staged? Are you aware that the attacks were carried out not just by Hamas, but by mobs of Gazan civilians? Do you know that they did far worse things to dead, dying, and living women than dance in their underwear?

Because Gaza-based militant groups had fired over 18,000 rockets and mortars at Israel since Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, the IDF thought they had things under control by dealing with these (e.g. Iron Dome) and underestimated Hamas's capacity to carry out a land invasion. You can see from videos of Nova Festival that no one really batted an eyelid at first when they found themselves under rocket fire, becuase that's just an ordinary day. (Imagine that at Glastonbury!) It's only when they heard gunshots that they began to realise something very different was happening.

In response to the atrocities of 7 October, the IDF mobilised over 300,000 reservists to triple its numbers. Many had not served in years, and some were flown in from abroad to rejoin units. There were also “lone soldiers” – volunteers from abroad without family in Israel – driven by rising antisemitism and solidarity after the attack.

In the context of the deadliest and most sadistic attacks on Jews since the Holocaust, it would be surprising if everyone involved in the aftermath – especially those who had to go into such a terrifyingly hostile environment – behaved like a Designated Safeguarding Lead at a junior school in Kent. I wish none of it had happened, but instances of individuals and groups behaving badly are somewhat understandable in the circumstances.

I commend you for trying. Many brush aside October 7th, it's all insignificant to them.

Insignificant because it only happened to Jews who probably deserved it anyway (sarcasm).

I know. It's all Hasbara...

I try not to get led into detailing things more graphically, as I have come to believe that there are some posters who actually enjoy this 😬

I agree, there is a strange prurience about the relish some have for the graphic detail. Thank you also for your post. You point to a regularly forgotten side to what people mean when they talk about Israel being held to unrealistic standards, and the lack of empathy to Israelis. The idea that Israel should have responded in a perfectly ideal way, while reeling from the absolute horror and shock of 7 October is so inhumane.

I am not Jewish. I feel like I have had to choose to seek out information regarding October 7th as it was not reported in the way it deserved. Initially I had the impression it was a little bit of fighting by ‘freedom fighters’ as push back. That’s how I feel it was portrayed.

I’ve spent hours and hours discovering the truth. And it is certainly different to my initial impression from the media. Where is the outcry for these victims? For the hostages? Why does it feel like the whole world has drank the cool aid? People are being called racist and batting around words like ‘genocide’ to shut people up. We’ve seen this over and over again with other issues such as gender ideology.

Perhaps it’s too late now. All these uni kids will be running the world soon.

I am also aware that not everyone on MN is wholly unrelated to the victims of 7 October and I'd like to try to avoid violating their grief by raking over deeply distressing information.

This is how I feel and why I would never want to share information that is too graphic or distressing because you never know who you will trigger or deeply upset. I myself was devastated by something a pro Pal poster wrote with no trigger warning, which would be obligatory on certain other boards.

I hate the fact that some seem to relish using the term concentration camp. They know it could be particularly upsetting to some fellow members of the MN community & they know why - yet they use it regardless and sometimes with a "point scoring" mentality that they will use the term because no one can stop them.

It's like grief tourism the way some like to focus on the most graphic details they can find of people suffering.

@Beachtastic @Twiglets1 completely agree. We have lost many thoughtful and knowledgeable contributors over the last year or so, partly for this reason, I'm sure.

I know and sometimes I'm praying (figuratively speaking) that the people who do still contribute don't get driven away by it too.

I'm sure some of it is tactical. The same as the personal attacks that drive people away too because it's stressful debating with people who feel they can be as nasty as they want to try & score a point.

Information released by Israel about its own suffering tends to be discreet, and you are right that you have to actively search for it. You can't just passively consume social media expecting anything traumatic to be rammed down your throat. That's why I think it's possible that Lipstick really had no clue about what actually happened on 7 October, let alone why it matters.

Please note I included evidence of conspiracy to commit a terrorist crime as a valid reason for prosecution and proscription of organisations.

I am Jewish and my safely tucked up in bed comment was in reference to the RAF military personnel who were not anywhere near the fighter jets whilst the they were being spray painted. Spray painting is also not at all comparable to arson or bombs - which are things that could cause injury or death.

Not the case. Dozens have been arrested while doing silent sitting protests.

There is nothing “mere” about criminal damage and your direct comparison of civilian protesters spray painting a grand total of two (2) state owned fighter jets to 1930s state sponsored mobs terrorising civilian Jewish families in their homes and businesses during the lead up to the Holocaust is ill considered.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvjglwlyx9o

“Raza Husain KC, for Ms Ammori, told Mr Justice Chamberlain on Monday that the home secretary's ban was unlawful and she should be allowed to challenge it.
"The proscription of Palestine Action is repugnant to the tradition of the common law and contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights," he said.
"The decision is so extreme as to render the UK an international outlier. The decision to proscribe Palestine Action had the hallmarks of an authoritarian and blatant abuse of power."
Ms Ammori's lawyers said the ban was having a "chilling effect" on legitimate protest.
Many of the people arrested since the ban had been holding signs reading: "I oppose genocide, I support Palestine Action".
The court was told that one man in Leeds had been detained under terrorism powers for holding up a copy of an item in the satirical magazine Private Eye which had lampooned the ban.
In another case, a 77-year-old woman from Keighley, West Yorkshire, was held over a placard that read: "I support NON-VIOLENT PALESTINE ACTION to oppose VIOLENCE AND GENOCIDE."
Blinne Ní Ghrálaigh KC, also for Ms Ammori, added: "Dozens and dozens of people have been arrested for protesting, seated and mostly silent protest. Your task is to decide whether these are proportionate restrictions on free speech."
The court heard that the government's internal assessment of Palestine Action, drawn up by the secret Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre inside MI5, had concluded that the majority of its activity did not cross the legal threshold for a ban.”

I didn't say it was 'mere', I was responding to a PP who was downplaying the actions of Palestine Action.

You might want to look at what else they've been up to. It really isn't just two fighter jets.

Have you been on holiday?