European Commission President days Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons. Israel has right to defend itself

[Nowayyousure]

"European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen said she told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday that diplomacy was ultimately best on Iran, but stopped short of calling for an immediate ceasefire.

Von der Leyen said that she agreed with Netanyahu in a telephone call that "Iran should not have a nuclear weapon, without any question."

Von der Leyen has previously criticised Israel's actions in Gaza, but said that Iran's non-compliance with the UN nuclear watchdog meant Israel "has the right to defend itself".

"Iran is the principal source of regional instability," she added."

I am talking about the visual impact of these constant aggressions Israel is doing.

Again, why are you only focusing on one side? Only seeing the aggression that comes from one side?
No “visuals” from other aggressors?
Someone on a different thread described it as Hamas being merely regarded as background noise by some, while they focus their entire attention on Israel.
That does seem to be the case, also now in the context of Iran.

You are aware Israel is a democracy and can affect its own regime change at any election time?

But I dont know why anyone here is bothering, the ignorance on this thread is really, really shocking.

Are we back to ‘Israel = Jews = you are an anti-Semite’ again?

What do you even mean by that in the context of pp’s post? That aiming for the destruction of Israel is okay, because Israel doesn’t automatically equal Jews?

Is it? Are you saying the people of Israel have elected a war criminal who has an arrest warrant on his person by the ICC? And who is responsible for genocide and ethnic cleansing not to mention land grab from Palestinian people as per evidence from several international organisations? Are you saying Israeli people elected a government several of whose ministers were about ot be banned in the UK due to their extremist ideologies right before Netenyahu launched this illegal war?

Are you saying all of this?

@dairydebris

"But I dont know why anyone here is bothering, the ignorance on this thread is really, really shocking."

I know what you mean, I would also add the batshit conspiracy theories and factually false statements.

It's all very tiresome.

I'm saying Israel is a democracy and can chose regime change for itself. If Israelis are unhappy with their current administration they are free to vote for alternatives at the next election. That's just a fact.

The rest of your post is emotional hyperbole, as are all your other posts. I honestly don't think its worth engaging you on most of it. I just wanted to make sure you and others reading this are aware that Israel is a democracy.

It's truly concerning, if some of the views expressed here are really what people are thinking. I hope it's just mumsnet and not the general population.

Is it the right to defend you want to see confirmed or the right to carry out any actions and call them defence?

Israel is the most protected nation in the world thanks to the Iron Dome, largely funded by the US. This is what has enabled it to fire indiscriminately at Palestine with little fear of retribution. Prior to 2023, Palestinians were 15 times more likely to be killed than Israelis in these conflicts. That number is much higher now.

The 7th of October attacks were horrific, and there is no justification for it. But it is also true they did not come out of nowhere. Israel is always painted as a peace loving nation who just want to live quietly and not be bothered, but history shows us this has not been true of all governments.

Israel has as much right as any other to defend themselves. Any defence must be proportionate, and I find it difficult to see how anyone could say what is happening in Palestine is proportionate. Part of that defence must also be to work towards a peaceful settlement with Palestine, but there has been no sign of any will to do so from the current government.

Iran is a threat to the world, and I’m sure Israel feels that as much as any nation, but is the current attack a defence against an imminent threat? Or is it designed to put Israel once more into “victim” status to take the heat off genocide in Palestine? One thing is certain, the Iranian people will fare much worse than the Israeli people in this conflict.

You still haven’t answered any of my questions.

By saying that Israel is a true democracy, do you mean to say Israeli people have backed the genocide, ethnic cleansing and land grab in Gaza and hence are equally culpable?

Netanyahu has been in power for more than 17 years. Polls show he is very unpopular in Israel so how is that working out? If he's really so unpopular why does he keep getting elected in this democracy?

This is one of the points I am trying to make.
Netenyahu had run this campaign of terror for his own gain only and the interests he represents.
None of it is going to make Israel or the world any safer than it was before. In fact, quite the opposite.
He is a tool for the oligarchs that Trump and Putin represent. And an unstable world works very well for these oligarchs. So here we are.

Polls change, which year and poll are you referring to specifically?

I think it is concerning. Mn won’t be immune and I think similar could be occurring on other SM.

Also, the conflict will stay alive full well.
Which is precisely what the backers of Netenyahu and Trump and Putin want. A world where all the wealth keeps getting squeezed to the top without anyone ever questioning them because they can keep people fighting amongst themselves with wars in most regions.

There's many polls taken over the years, many Israelis were reportedly unhappy when he came into power again in 2022. Hanging on by a thread by making a coalition with the far right parties.

Can you explain which views you are talking about?

And it is quite telling that none of these posters respond to any direct questions. It is always ‘because you hate Israeli policies, you are a Jew hater and hence an anti-Semite who must be eliminated’.

Posts which downplay the threat of Iran holding nuclear weapons.

ETA general pro Iran regime posts too

Do you really not understand. Israel don't want to grab land from Iran so they aren't going after Tehran to grab land. You really are spectacularly missing the point.

What's tea beers?

@dairydebris

"It's truly concerning, if some of the views expressed here are really what people are thinking. I hope it's just mumsnet and not the general population."

Sadly these views exist in the general population as well. These people have disappeared down a rabbit hole of hate for Israel, self hate for the West and its values and echo chamber social media and protest marches.

If anything these views are more prevalent in wider society than on MN.

It's only a couple of months ago that five Iranians were arrested for plotting a terrorist bomb attack in London and worryingly it's only small step from supporting a hostile state like Iran, to supporting terrorist attacks in London to becoming an actual terrorist.

I think the less we engage with these people the better, they are not open to rational debate or facts as they are simply driven by emotion and emotion and ideology.

Any comment on thread theme? There's so many threads and constantly derailing so they all end up a mis-mass. You are rambling on over several posts but most make little sense with regard to.the topic at all.

Israel can’t even dream to do land grab in Iran because it is next to impossible! Otherwise, the murderous regime of Netenyahu would definitely have attempted this.
However, they are doing plenty to destabilise the region for their backers and sowing seeds of hatred and revenge for generations to come.

@Nowayyousure what do you make of the reports coming out today that US intelligence believed Iran was years away from gaining a nuclear weapon? Not months away as Netanyahu claimed and used as justification to attack Iran right now.

BTW I agree with the EU president that Iran shouldn't have a nuclear bomb and her opinion that diplomacy is the best path forward.

It is completely batshit. Some are unable to follow a thread conversation. Come up with conspiracy theories that are odd.