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Conflict in the Middle East

Why is Israel attacking Iran and vice versa?

176 replies

Clocking · 13/06/2025 22:50

Can anyone explain, simply and objectively, what is happening between Israel and Iran? It seems mad to me that Israel would take on another war right now!

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Vivi0 · 14/06/2025 19:36

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 14/06/2025 19:06

The world should and needs to be working towards a process of denuclearisation. But that isn’t going to happen whilst countries like Iran are pursuing nuclear capabilities.

I think if those countries that are actively working to stop countries like Iran developing nuclear capabilities were also demonstrating their own commitment to nuclear disarmament it would be more effective and less hypocritical

It absolutely would be more effective. But it’s not happening. Not now, at least.

I don’t understand the use of the word hypocritical, though.

It would be hypocritical if one of the current nuclear powers was suggesting another nuclear power give up their nuclear capabilities.

It would be hypocritical if one country was pursing nuclear capabilities, but was preventing other countries from pursing nuclear capabilities.

The fact is, most nuclear powers have had nuclear weapons for a long time. It’s not something they are currently pursuing, it’s something their Governments have inherited.

No country in Europe is a nuclear power, bar the UK and France. Even though they would be more than capable of becoming one. Some countries being nuclear powers doesn’t mean all countries should follow suit. Most countries understand this.

The world is far too unstable for anyone to hold or be trusted with extinction level weapons.

To date, all current nuclear powers have demonstrated that they will not use their nuclear arsenal. Who knows what will happen in the future, though. It only takes one nutcase.

The less nuclear weapons in the world, the better. I genuinely don’t get why anyone thinks Iran should be able to develop nuclear weapons because of “hypocrisy” or whatever. It’s such a bizzare position to take.

Vivi0 · 14/06/2025 19:39

Arafina · 14/06/2025 19:12

As if the countries that have nuclear weapons have any intention of giving them up, don't make me laugh, they are far too useful as a bullying tactic

So lets give them to Iran so that they can use them as a bullying tactic too 👍🏻

Also, I didn’t suggest that the current nuclear powers have any intention of giving them up; I believe that they should though. And that it should be a global effort to completely denuclearise. For everyone’s benefit.

1dayatatime · 14/06/2025 20:11

@roses2

"I don't get why there are news reports of Iran threatening UK and US if they help Israel. The bit I don't get is why would UK and US to help Israel when they didn't step in to help Gaza!"

So it might actually have something to do with the fact that Iran has attacked British shipping, kidnapped Royal Navy sailors and recently five Iranians were arrested for planning a terrorist attack in London. Whereas Israel has not.

So you see Iran is not exactly on good terms with the UK. Unless of course you think that the recent planned terrorist attack in London is reasonable behaviour.

BelleHathor · 14/06/2025 20:25

1dayatatime · 14/06/2025 19:34

@BelleHathor

"Except for Israel did provide aid to "Syrian Rebels" many groups of which were associated with ISIS. It was confirmed on the record in 2015:"

Absolutely whilst it is true Israel provided cash, food, fuel, medical supplies to Syrian rebels (excluding ISIS) it absolutely did not provide military support and the aid it did provide was minuscule in comparison to the military aid provided by Turkey, Qatar, and the US to the Syrian rebels and the military aid provided to the Syrian Government by Russia.

Moreover it is factually incorrect to state that Israel patched up injured ISIS rebels to send them back into Syria. Israel may have inadvertently provided medical aid to ISIS rebels posing as civilians but it absolutely did not knowingly "patch up injured ISIS rebels to send them back into the fight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IsraelihumanitariannoperationsduringgtheSyriannCivilWar

Inadvertently, if you say so.
https://www.reuters.com/article/world/syrian-state-media-praise-druze-attack-on-israeli-ambulance-idUSKBN0P30WM/

https://www.haaretz.com/2015-07-20/ty-article/idf-stops-treating-wounded-members-of-syrias-nusra-front/0000017f-f53e-ddde-abff-fd7f63510000

Israel halts medical treatment for members of Syria's Nusra Front

The change took place a month after Israeli Druze ambushed wounded Syrian rebels being transported in IDF ambulances, killing one of the men. Five members of the Druze community were later arrested on suspicion of murder.

https://www.haaretz.com/2015-07-20/ty-article/idf-stops-treating-wounded-members-of-syrias-nusra-front/0000017f-f53e-ddde-abff-fd7f63510000

1dayatatime · 14/06/2025 20:54

@BelleHathor

"Inadvertently, if you say so"

So some Druze militia shot up an Israeli military ambulance killing one of the injured patients. The Druze claim the injured patients were Al Nusra, the Israelis said they were Syrian citizens. And nobody knows for sure because the patients are now dead.

Either way not ISIS and not very nice shooting ambulances (including the ambulance attack by Israel in Gaza).

HerNeighbourTotoro · 15/06/2025 06:49

roses2 · 14/06/2025 19:27

I don't get why there are news reports of Iran threatening UK and US if they help Israel. The bit I don't get is why would UK and US to help Israel when they didn't step in to help Gaza!

When you dont know about it's about ££££££££.

Unbelievable Starmer even toys with an idea of helping Israel.

I imagine they all hope this will help topple Iranian regime so US and UK can get a piece of cake trying to increase influence and a government that would favour them. It worked so well in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan before. Oh, wait...

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 07:27

US & UK are allies of Israel so naturally they will help Israel when it seems to be needed.

Squirrelandnuts · 15/06/2025 13:36

SharonEllis · 14/06/2025 07:50

Israel has no interest in obliterating Iran. Only getting rid of their government and military capability.

Why does Israel think it has the right to change another country's government and get rid of their military?
Israel's aggression towards its neighbours and further afield is not new.

Maybe, if they concentrated on being secular and democratic, the one-state would work better.
Maybe, treating Palestinians as equals would help. Also, remember many Palestinians are Christians.
Many carved out nations have different tribes and religions, and they cope.
If not, then the two-state option is the way forward.

Jerusalem is sacred to Jews, Christians (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox etc.) and Muslims (all sects), and should not be under the sole control of any religion.

All of these religions have 'Do not kill' in their laws or commandments. Funny, how extremists of any are happy to ignore this, and don't know when to stop and leave justice to either God or International Law Courts.

Squirrelandnuts · 15/06/2025 13:38

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 07:27

US & UK are allies of Israel so naturally they will help Israel when it seems to be needed.

Israel doesn't need anymore military help.

It needs to learn how to use diplomacto and International Law Courts to achieve it's aims, like most of the countries in the world.

Squirrelandnuts · 15/06/2025 13:55

Twiglets1 · 14/06/2025 10:35

Of course it helps when the targets aren't hiding underneath civilian buildings.

You expect soldiers or militia to make targets of themselves.

Key aspects of the Geneva Conventions:
Protection of Non-Combatants:
The core principle is to protect those not involved in fighting, ensuring they are treated humanely and with dignity.
Protection of the Wounded and Sick:
This includes provisions for the care of the wounded and sick, regardless of which side they are on, and protecting medical personnel and facilities.
Protection of Prisoners of War:
The conventions outline the treatment of prisoners of war, including their basic rights, living conditions, and repatriation when hostilities end.
Protection of Civilians:
The conventions protect civilians from direct attack, indiscriminate violence, and other violations of their rights.

Quite simply, Israel has deliberately ignored these aspects of the Convention.

Even Russia has not killed a tenth of what the IDF has or gone all out to completely destroy infrastructure and towns/cities. Yet, Russia has been internationally sanctioned and virtually and justifiably ostracised.

SharonEllis · 15/06/2025 14:03

Squirrelandnuts · 15/06/2025 13:36

Why does Israel think it has the right to change another country's government and get rid of their military?
Israel's aggression towards its neighbours and further afield is not new.

Maybe, if they concentrated on being secular and democratic, the one-state would work better.
Maybe, treating Palestinians as equals would help. Also, remember many Palestinians are Christians.
Many carved out nations have different tribes and religions, and they cope.
If not, then the two-state option is the way forward.

Jerusalem is sacred to Jews, Christians (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox etc.) and Muslims (all sects), and should not be under the sole control of any religion.

All of these religions have 'Do not kill' in their laws or commandments. Funny, how extremists of any are happy to ignore this, and don't know when to stop and leave justice to either God or International Law Courts.

I don't know why Im being honoured with this lecture but in answer to your question.....Iran has been attacking Israel for years and openly calling for its destruction and calling on muslims to kill 'zionists' (do watch footage of 7 October if this has passed you by). So Israel is well within its rights to fight back. It has called on the people of Iran to overthrow the government - its not actually invading to overthrow it themselves.

User37482 · 15/06/2025 14:03

SharonEllis · 14/06/2025 07:06

How many times do we have to over this? Iran has consistently vowed to obliterate Israe and supported or been part of regular attacks on Israel. Iran is an unstable, theocratic dictatorship that oppresses its people and foments unrest around the world. Having nuclear weapons gives it power regardless of whether it actually launches a nuclear attack on Israel. People with a lot more knowledge than you have consistently worked to prevent iran getting nukes for decades.

The real question is, why are you so keen to downplay the threat of Iran and delegitimise Israel's legitimate concerns about Iran?

Interestingly I’ve seen it suggested that there would be a very real risk of a state like Iran allowing non state actors to small warheads that could be easily transported but still do immense damage. The problem with Iran specifically is it that it funds and arms multiple terror groups in Lebanon, Yemen, Gaza, Iraq and probably more that I haven’t heard of.

They have been destabilising the middle eats for years, not just attacks on Israel but also helping Assad in Syria (Hezbollah helped to kill 300’000 non combatants,) attacks by the houthis on Saudi and the Emirates. They really are awful.

Also it’s hardly a pre-emptive strike is it if you have been using your proxies to attack a country for 2 years. Hamas attacked Israel and then the day after Hezbollah started shelling Israel and Israel hadn’t even responded at this point, they were still trying to figure out what had just happened.

SharonEllis · 15/06/2025 14:07

User37482 · 15/06/2025 14:03

Interestingly I’ve seen it suggested that there would be a very real risk of a state like Iran allowing non state actors to small warheads that could be easily transported but still do immense damage. The problem with Iran specifically is it that it funds and arms multiple terror groups in Lebanon, Yemen, Gaza, Iraq and probably more that I haven’t heard of.

They have been destabilising the middle eats for years, not just attacks on Israel but also helping Assad in Syria (Hezbollah helped to kill 300’000 non combatants,) attacks by the houthis on Saudi and the Emirates. They really are awful.

Also it’s hardly a pre-emptive strike is it if you have been using your proxies to attack a country for 2 years. Hamas attacked Israel and then the day after Hezbollah started shelling Israel and Israel hadn’t even responded at this point, they were still trying to figure out what had just happened.

Edited

Yes absolutely. That is regularly forgotten. It was relentless.

HerNeighbourTotoro · 15/06/2025 14:10

Israel: attacks Iran killing lots of civilians.
Also Israel: Iran will pay the price!

Why is Israel attacking Iran and vice versa?
Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 15:17

Squirrelandnuts · 15/06/2025 13:38

Israel doesn't need anymore military help.

It needs to learn how to use diplomacto and International Law Courts to achieve it's aims, like most of the countries in the world.

Against Hamas and their October 7th massacre?

Against Iran developing nuclear bombs and determined to destroy Israel?

Diplomatic solutions are always best if possible but - not always possible. It depends on who you are dealing with & whether they genuinely want diplomatic solutions or not.

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 15:19

Squirrelandnuts · 15/06/2025 13:55

You expect soldiers or militia to make targets of themselves.

Key aspects of the Geneva Conventions:
Protection of Non-Combatants:
The core principle is to protect those not involved in fighting, ensuring they are treated humanely and with dignity.
Protection of the Wounded and Sick:
This includes provisions for the care of the wounded and sick, regardless of which side they are on, and protecting medical personnel and facilities.
Protection of Prisoners of War:
The conventions outline the treatment of prisoners of war, including their basic rights, living conditions, and repatriation when hostilities end.
Protection of Civilians:
The conventions protect civilians from direct attack, indiscriminate violence, and other violations of their rights.

Quite simply, Israel has deliberately ignored these aspects of the Convention.

Even Russia has not killed a tenth of what the IDF has or gone all out to completely destroy infrastructure and towns/cities. Yet, Russia has been internationally sanctioned and virtually and justifiably ostracised.

I don’t expect soldiers or militia to hide amongst civilians and civilian buildings but that’s a particular speciality of Hamas.

Stripes56 · 15/06/2025 19:09

User37482 · 15/06/2025 14:03

Interestingly I’ve seen it suggested that there would be a very real risk of a state like Iran allowing non state actors to small warheads that could be easily transported but still do immense damage. The problem with Iran specifically is it that it funds and arms multiple terror groups in Lebanon, Yemen, Gaza, Iraq and probably more that I haven’t heard of.

They have been destabilising the middle eats for years, not just attacks on Israel but also helping Assad in Syria (Hezbollah helped to kill 300’000 non combatants,) attacks by the houthis on Saudi and the Emirates. They really are awful.

Also it’s hardly a pre-emptive strike is it if you have been using your proxies to attack a country for 2 years. Hamas attacked Israel and then the day after Hezbollah started shelling Israel and Israel hadn’t even responded at this point, they were still trying to figure out what had just happened.

Edited

And we all know Israel allowed money to go to Hamas, Israel are now known to be paying militia in Gaza, and apparently they supplied weapons to Syrian rebels. Israel armed Iran in the Iran Iraq war. Has Israel been using proxies to fight their wars and causing destabilisation to support their own goals?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-acknowledges-long-claimed-weapons-supply-to-syrian-rebels/amp/

Stripes56 · 15/06/2025 19:16

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 15:19

I don’t expect soldiers or militia to hide amongst civilians and civilian buildings but that’s a particular speciality of Hamas.

But you would expect Israel to be proportionate in its bombing / killing of Hamas. Tell me - have we heard which high ranking Hamas solider / official was killed when 10 innocent members of one medical family were killed? I haven’t heard so far…

Stripes56 · 15/06/2025 19:18

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 15:19

I don’t expect soldiers or militia to hide amongst civilians and civilian buildings but that’s a particular speciality of Hamas.

And why did they kill Hind and her family? In their car. Was there a tunnel under it?
And these are only the cases that reach the attention of the West…

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 19:53

@Stripes56 I wasn't talking about civilians getting killed in a war which of course does happen in every war.

But go ahead and divert the topic away from Hamas if you don't like them being criticised for hiding amongst civilians and civilian buildings

Stripes56 · 15/06/2025 20:00

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 15:19

I don’t expect soldiers or militia to hide amongst civilians and civilian buildings but that’s a particular speciality of Hamas.

@Twiglets1
when you said “I wasn't talking about civilians getting killed in a war which of course does happen in every war.”
You surely brought up the issue of civilians being used by Hamas as cover as a reason for Israel killing so many Palestinians.
I am just asking following on from this. Do you care know to respond to my post about why it was proportionate to kill 10 members of one medical family and Hind and her family? When Israel can be ever so precise…

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 20:05

Stripes56 · 15/06/2025 20:00

@Twiglets1
when you said “I wasn't talking about civilians getting killed in a war which of course does happen in every war.”
You surely brought up the issue of civilians being used by Hamas as cover as a reason for Israel killing so many Palestinians.
I am just asking following on from this. Do you care know to respond to my post about why it was proportionate to kill 10 members of one medical family and Hind and her family? When Israel can be ever so precise…

Do I care know?

Stripes56 · 15/06/2025 20:07

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 20:05

Do I care know?

Presumably you meant “do I care now”?

Do you not care if Israel fought a war that adhered to Geneva conventions?

Twiglets1 · 15/06/2025 20:09

Stripes56 · 15/06/2025 20:07

Presumably you meant “do I care now”?

Do you not care if Israel fought a war that adhered to Geneva conventions?

No, I mean you post makes no sense.

You said Do you care know to respond to my post

Stripes56 · 15/06/2025 20:11

Ok
You brought up issue of Hamas using civilians as cover
I said that Israel still needed to be proportionate in its killing and that they can be precise when they choose to be
I asked if we knew which high ranking Hamas official was being targeted when the medical family were killed, or Hind’s family
hope that makes sense for you now