Why is Israel attacking Iran and vice versa?

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Can anyone explain, simply and objectively, what is happening between Israel and Iran? It seems mad to me that Israel would take on another war right now!

@Bananas1827 what @1dayatatime said. But also zionism isnt really an ideology. Its the belief that Jewish people have a homeland in Israel based on the historical fact that that where they came from. Zionism runs through the religion. The political ideology of Zionism is a later development.

@1dayatatime I’m sure people do use them interchangeably because they don’t understand the clear and very important distinction.

There was a series on channel 4 called ‘the promise’ with Claire Foy in it. Interesting watch and I’d recommend to anyone wanting to understand the root causes of the present day conflict. Of course it is somewhat simplified but helps to get a flavour of some of the issues at play.

I’ll add also that while attention has been diverted to Iran, this is continuing. www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-tank-shelling-kills-45-people-awaiting-aid-trucks-gaza-ministry-says-2025-06-17/

When I read the news I can find lots of information except the reason behind a war. I find it very difficult to read between the lines. I need things outlined to me in black and white. I guess this is what OP is asking for

I’ve had this same debate countless times—online and offline—and the pattern is always the same. You try to explain Israel’s actions today, and your opponent immediately jumps to talking about historical oppression or says Israel “shouldn’t even be there.” So you backtrack to explain 1948 and Israel’s legitimacy, and they jump forward again, accusing Israel of genocide in the present. Rinse and repeat.

This zigzag between timelines isn’t just confusing—it’s a tactic. It overwhelms the conversation with accusations that take 30 seconds to say but 10 minutes to properly unpack. It’s mudslinging by volume, hoping something sticks.

To save time, I'll use talk to text to chatgpt and get it to do the typing for me.

So let’s slow it down and set things out clearly, starting with the foundation: 1948.

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1. Israel’s Right to Exist: Historical and Legal Basis

The Jews didn’t come from Poland or Brooklyn. The name “Israel” wasn't chosen at random—this land was the historic Jewish homeland, formerly Judea, where Jewish identity was formed and two ancient Jewish kingdoms stood for over 1,300 years.

The region wasn’t sovereign in 1948. It was an abandoned Ottoman colony, then a British Mandate. Just like many modern countries that emerged from former empires (e.g., Iraq, Jordan, Syria), Israel emerged in that post-imperial moment.

The 1947 UN Partition Plan offered a Jewish state and an Arab state. Jews accepted it. Arabs rejected it and declared war.

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1. The Property Argument: Misunderstood

Saying “Israel stole Palestinian houses” ignores how states work. When a government changes—whether it’s Britain to Israel, or Ottoman to British—private property still exists. You don’t lose your house just because the flag changes.

Jewish Israelis didn’t show up as colonizers—they were indigenous people returning to a homeland, legally purchasing land, and later accepting a partition plan that was internationally recognized.

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1. Who Were the Palestinians in 1948?

At the time of partition, the UN didn’t talk about “Palestinians” vs. “Jews.” It spoke of a Jewish state and an Arab state.

The term “Palestinian” as a national identity wasn’t used until the 1960s—specifically 1964, with the creation of the PLO. Before that, “Palestinian” was used mostly to refer to Jews and Arabs living under the British Mandate.

Even the Arab response to the 1948 war referred to the displaced people as part of “the Arab cause,” not a uniquely Palestinian one.

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1. What Actually Happened in 1947–1949?

After the UN vote, Arab militias launched a civil war targeting Jews. Jews fought back.

In the war’s chaos:

Some Arab villagers fought from within towns and were expelled during combat.

Some fled voluntarily—believing, often encouraged by Arab leaders, that they’d return after the Jews were wiped out.

Others left because of fear—fueled by exaggerated or fabricated rumors (e.g., claims of rape and massacres). The rumours were actually started by the Arabs in the hope that all the villages would rise up against the Jews, but the plan backfired.

In May 1948, Israel declared independence. The next day, five Arab states invaded, aiming to annihilate the new Jewish state.

Israel defended itself, and in doing so, more Arabs were displaced. But again, this happened in the context of a war they started.

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1. Israel’s Declaration of Independence Was Inclusive

From the start, Israel offered full rights and citizenship to Arabs willing to live in peace. That wasn't just official policy in a meeting somewhere, it's in the Israeli Declaration of Independence.

Today, Arabs make up about 20% of Israel’s population, with voting rights, political parties, judges, and members of parliament.

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1. Why There Was No Palestinian State

The Arabs had the chance to declare a state next to Israel in 1948. They refused.

Instead, Jordan and Egypt took control of the West Bank and Gaza—and notably, did not set up a Palestinian state.

In fact, Jordan annexed the West Bank, and Egypt ran Gaza as a military zone.

If they wanted a Palestinian state, they could have had one. But the priority wasn’t statehood—it was stopping Jewish sovereignty at all costs.

I set out numbers 1, 2, 3 but something in the html formatting reset it to 1, 1, 1

Now let’s talk about the present.

Point one: the so-called two-state solution.

Israel has offered the Palestinians their own state many times. The two-state solution always made the most sense—if the other side was genuinely interested in peace. But let’s be blunt: they never were. There has never been widespread support among Palestinians for a two-state solution, even when all other options have failed. Even now, when the West Bank is under what they call “occupation,” and they claim to suffer under Israeli oppression, they still don’t support peace or coexistence. This isn’t just a hunch; you can see it plainly in polls—formal or informal—where the majority consistently oppose a peaceful settlement with Israel.

Israelis are constantly told to “make peace,” but peace only works when both sides want it. You can’t have peace with someone who wants you wiped out.

Point two: Israel was never left in peace.

There were endless terrorist attacks from the West Bank, which is why Israel had to build the security fence. People call it apartheid or annexation or whatever else is fashionable, but I remember Israel before the fence. I remember the suicide bombings, the mass killings on buses and in cafés. The fence wasn’t just built for fun—it was a last resort after years of bloodshed. And it worked. Attacks dropped dramatically.

Point three: Gaza.

In 2005, Israel withdrew completely from Gaza. Took every settler out. Dismantled towns. Pulled back the army. In theory, Gaza was now its own mini-state. They had control over their own laws, education system, infrastructure—you name it. They received billions in aid. If they had chosen peace, if they had built something decent, shown any kind of goodwill, they could have eventually become a recognised, functioning state—maybe even with support to develop further. They could have had ports, trade, tourism.

What did they do instead? They elected Hamas. A year later, rockets started flying—not a few, not even thousands—hundreds of thousands over the years. And not aimed at military targets, but at civilians. The only reason there aren’t hundreds of thousands of dead Israelis is because of Iron Dome. And that’s not a defence of Hamas—it's proof of their intent. If they could kill that many Jews, they would. The only reason they haven’t is because Israel defends itself.

Point four: October 7.

This was a declaration of war. And I say “Gaza,” not “Hamas,” because Hamas is the government of Gaza. Just like in WWII, we didn’t say “we’re fighting the Nazis” in isolation—we said “we’re fighting Germany.” Because governments represent their people in war. Hamas runs Gaza. They declared war. They committed mass murder, rape, kidnapping, and worse.

So Israel is at war. And war ends in only two ways: surrender or victory.

Israel has one moral obligation—to win. That’s it. Hamas can stop the war tomorrow by surrendering and releasing the hostages. But if they insist on fighting to the last man, then Israel must accept that challenge. You can’t negotiate with people who are committed to your destruction.

And yes, there will be civilian casualties. That’s tragic, truly. But this isn’t genocide. This is war. Civilians always suffer in war—especially when their own government hides behind them and uses them as shields. The deaths are the responsibility of those who started it—and continue it.

Point five: war crimes.

Have Israeli soldiers committed war crimes? Probably. That happens in every war. These are young men with guns, under immense pressure, many of whom have lost friends and family. Do they sometimes act wrongly? Yes. Should they be held accountable? Also yes. But that’s the difference: Israel does hold people accountable. There are investigations, court martials, legal processes.

But that’s individuals—not policy. The IDF’s official rules of engagement and strategy are not criminal. Israel doesn’t target civilians. It warns them, drops leaflets, phones them. That’s not genocide—that’s a military trying to fight a terror army embedded in a civilian population, while still acting with restraint.

Point six: famine and aid.

There’s more aid going into Gaza now than almost anywhere else on earth. You can look it up yourself on the COGAT website. Tons of food and supplies go in every single day. The question isn’t “why is there famine”—the question is, where is the aid going?

Answer: Hamas.

They steal it. They sell it. They hoard it. They profit off it. They don’t distribute it fairly. And yet, even with all this going on, Gaza somehow remains “on the brink of famine” for 18 months without ever crossing that brink.

If it’s really that bad, Gaza can surrender. That would stop the suffering.

Israel isn’t prolonging this war—Hamas is. And until Hamas surrenders or is defeated, Israel will keep fighting. Because that’s what any country would do when faced with an enemy that wants it erased.

in that case we have no certainty only those that know will know the rest will be fed the cover story via media etc

But why might Iran want to destroy Israel? What’s in it for them?

Israel is a real fly in their ointment. Hence Iran’s Hezbollah standing behind Hamas i.e. Iran’s funding/support of terrorist organisations to attack Israel.

@TheMel
Thank you for your post.
Can I ask some questions as I’m trying to understand too what has led to the conflict.

Can we start from the beginning first:

you state;
The region wasn’t sovereign in 1948. It was an abandoned Ottoman colony, then a British Mandate. Just like many modern countries that emerged from former empires (e.g., Iraq, Jordan, Syria), Israel emerged in that post-imperial moment.
The 1947 UN Partition Plan offered a Jewish state and an Arab state. Jews accepted it. Arabs rejected it and declared war.

Would it not be more accurate to say that Britain captured and occupied Palestine in 1917? It was not an abandoned colony

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/why-did-britain-promise-palestine-to-arabs-and-zionists

The UN partition plan was heavily influenced by lobbying by Zionists and sidelined Arab interests

This is quite a detailed history:

https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/

@Stripes56

I think Britain was actually given the mandate by the League of Nations, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Either way, it was only administered by Britain under a mandate to make it into a Jewish and Arab state.

And yes, obviously nobody in HM government woke up one day and just decided to make the Levant a Jewish sovereign homeland once more. That was a result of Zionist lobbying.

Though I fail to see the relevance.

I got the impression from your post that it was fairly benign act - Britain taking over from a vacancy and people being happy with the creation of Israel.

The reality was very different, and there were questions even in Britain about the legality of the mandate and sidelining of Arab interests. It was not surprising that Arabs rejected the offer. Even at that point - people could tell that the creation of Israel would lead to continued conflict in the Middle East.

There were questions being asked from the beginning even about the legitimacy of Israel’s creation - which your post does not acknowledge

@TheMel
I am far from being an expert but this seems to be essence of the links I posted. I am sure you were trying to simplify the background. However- this risks minimising the Palestinian grievances - which defeats the purpose of trying to understand what has led to the current situation.

If you want to read the full history, there are plenty of books. The Arabs didn't have a stronger claim to the Levant than the Jews, hence the proposed partition plan.

Whether it should have been the Brits administering the land or someone else is neither here nor there. Those were the years of empires crumbling and nation states arising from the debris. It doesn't matter who took charge.

The Palestinians or Arab population (Muslim and Christian) constituted a significantly higher proportion of the population compared to the Jews in 1917 (over 90% and owned 97%) of the land. The principal of self determination would surely mean that this group of people had a greater right that was dismissed in isolation in this part of the ME?

They didn't own 97% of the land. Only about 15% was at all owned, roughly 8-7% Arab-Jewish respectively. The rest was state owned/public land. That was in 1948.

In 1917 the Ottomans were still in charge, and most of privately owned land was owned by Ottoman landlords who didn't even live there.

The land was owned by the landlords which Palestinian Arabs farmed. They were tenant farmers. It wasn’t abandoned land by absentee landlords.

The population of the region was also by far Palestinian Arabs and Christians- so even if we did take land ownership by distant landlords out of question- the principle of self-determination should have been applicable here- hence reservations by some about legality of sidelining the Arabs.

Even in 1945 - the land owned by Arabs was far greater.

The war in 1948 resulted in Israel taking Arab land that was set aside for Palestinian Arabs in the 1947 Partition Agreement. This included some of the most fertile land and also land clearly owned by Arabs. The Kibbutzim seized land owned by Palestinians during the months immediately after the military operations of 1948.

It was not until 1950 that the Knesset adopted laws which were supposed to legalise the acquisition of land that they had been capturing by force. They created the Absentee Property Law. They then created further law that transferred that land to the state of Israel.

The interpretation of facts seems dependent on whether you have concerns about how Israel was created or not, and the legality of this. But it’s certainly not as simple as your post suggested.

👏👏👏

@TheMel

An excellent summary but probably too fact based for the emotionally driven.

Supporters of the Israeli government and IDF have no compassion or empathy for innocent Palestinian civilians, child or adult who have suffered decades of oppression and occupation.

Agree. We see this on MN time and time again.

Squirrelandnuts
Even Russia has not killed a tenth of what the IDF has

At least 60,000 Ukrainians have been killed since Feb 2022 - over 13,000 civilians (UN figure May 2025) and over 46,000 troops (Zelensky Feb 2025) -plus tens of thousands are missing.

Thank you @Clavinova

@Squirrelandnuts really needs to delete such appalling misinformation.

The Ukraine- Russia is the bloodiest of all current wars. Over a million casualties (around 170,000 deaths, but this number goes up or down, depending on who is talking) , more than 20000 children vanished into Russia plus prisoners of war. It is very difficult to find the real numbers, as none of the sides wants the otherto have full knowledge of their losses. There are even sources saying more than a million deaths.
Maybe Sudan is worst, but we are not told anything about that one, so who knows.
It is likely that the percentage of lives lost is higher in Gaza, though. The PP may have meant that, rather than the actual number.

@Stripes56
This is my understanding. There was a documentary about how, think his name was Joesph ? (Uncle Joe), by his niece. He was tasked with acquiring land for Israel, purchased presumably from the Ottoman and Arab landlords.

He spoke in the documentary, saying to start with he felt bad about turfing Palestinians off land they had been farming for generations. But, later it didn't bother him, as there were adverts to bring more and more Jewish people to return to and work the ' expanding homeland'.

The Israelis could have built a fairer and more equal relationship between them and the Palestinians.

over 13,000 civilians (UN figure May 2025) - since 2022 - 3 years.

I think the poster is referring to civilians not those killed in armed combat