Eurovision - was the jury vote impacted by politics?

[mids2019]

So Israel massively won the public vote but with relatively few jury votes.....strange.

Was the jury possibly trying to prevent Israel beating Austria as an Israel won would maybe have got the Eurovsion organisers in a tight spot?

Brilliant song and it shows the general public aren't automatons swayed by politics when it comes to music and acknowledging a brilliant human back story.

I have seen a reply on this thread referring to advertisements urging people to vote for Israel. There were no advertisements, but social media was awash with pro-Israel voices urging people to make multiple votes. In one case I saw, a person boasted about having three separate credit cards registered in the UK, Australia and the USA and they paid for 20 votes for Israel three times over. So 60 votes. Someone replied by saying they have five credit cards and so bought 100 votes. I guess if you are not engaged with the issue on social media you won’t see this blatant vote rigging going on. The same thing happened last year.

Plus I imagine most people are unaware that Moroccanoil, the sponsor of the Eurovision Song Contest is actually and Israeli cosmetics company. And as chief sponsor, one imagines they have some influence.

Finally, Russia are banned because of their actions in Ukraine which have led to the International Criminal Court issuing an arrest warrant for its leader. The ICC has also issued an arrest warrant for the leaders of Hamas and the leader of Israel. And yet Israel is allowed to compete. Some of us smell double standards at Eurovision.

But returning to the main question here… Last year I looked at the differences between the judges’ votes for each act and the public vote. In terms of ranking, there was similarity. A country that was say the third most popular among the public was something like fifth favourite among the judges. But there was one glaring disconnect. That between the Israel votes. I haven’t done an analysis of the other countries this year, but once again, the difference in ranking between the judges and the public for Israel was stark. But when you consider that thousands of people in Brooklyn, NYC were voting multiple times when the show wasn’t even broadcast there and were able to do so days before the event, it kind of makes sense. There was a global online campaign orchestrated by those for whom Israel can do no wrong to create the impression that “the public” is massively supportive of what they are doing in Gaza. Reputable opinion polls tell a very different story.

British audiences as well as American audiences lap up what's dished out to them.

Certain broadcast networks have monopolies on events like the Olympics and Eurovision, and can broadcast what they please. The fact that audiences tune in isn't an indication that they want to be bored to tears by some sob story about how an athlete made it to America on a raft made of empty milk cartons and is now poised to win six track events and platform diving too. It's a matter of sucking it up until the competition starts because alternative coverage isn't available.

@carljfree please stop reposting this stupid screenshot. It's dated last year, and there's no way of verifying it. We each have to take responsibility for not spreading misinformation, let alone basing a whole post on it as if it's proven fact.

@carljfree

There most certainly were ads urging a vote for Israel. They were posted by accounts of Jewish organisations.

As I mentioned upthread, I suspect those ads made it into my feed because I follow several Holocaust education accounts/ organisations.

I know what I saw. Do not attempt to gaslight here. They were well produced ads, not the work of individuals exhorting friends to vote.

As I said - the blatant appeal to Americans, who know little or nothing of Eurovision and care less, left a bad taste in my mouth.

I feel very strongly that opening the vote up to the global audience was a bad mistake. I also feel very strongly that an investigation into the ads is warranted. Who funded them and how much was paid are questions that need to be asked.

I have read your links (other than the DM!), and I have explained at great lengths why I do not consider them adequate evidence. However much you might not wish it to be so, if you are going to make outlandish claims it is up to you to prove them, and if you do not manage to do that then people will not take them, or you, seriously. Rather than offer strong, independent sources you have offered articles from a variety of tabloids, and a media outlet currently at the centre of an anti-Semitism scandal, all of which readily admit they are using hamas' unverified figures. Considering your reading material, I am not in the least surprised at your bias!

This conversation started with you claiming to have a superior understanding of who are the 'good guys', seemingly based on some bizarre notion that everybody believes the same stories you believe, and supported Israel regardless. Despite your now several attempts to convince me, I am sorry to say I stand by my original judgment of your opinions on right and wrong.

*I am now off to bed, and have work in the morning, so I'm afraid you'll have to wait rather more than 2 hours for a response!

The fact that you have called facts that are in the public domain and have been debated and discussed in government buildings all over the world "outlandish" says a lot.

The facts are

• Israel has prevented all aid into Gaza for 60 days leading to starving children.

-Israel has murdered over 13000 children and many more are amputees.

• Israel has targeted medics and Dr Husssm Abu Safiya has been detained without trial in Sde Teiman where he has been tortured.

Even the most passionate posters on this board while arguing semantics would not deny all news sources available.

Now it is much preferable to bury our heads in the sand but our of respect for the pain and suffering and death being reined on the Palestinians currently,
denying their lived experience is nothing short of cruel.

I would ask you what news sources you rely on since mine are so obviously biased but to be honest it is very hard to debate with anyone who has presented no arguments except a refusal to listen and engage .

Plus I don't want to convince you that's not my job, you called me a liar and I was defending myself.
Goodnight.

Were there social media posts from other countries urging people to vote from their entry?

Of course you can’t know this because they oh were probably not on other countries algorithm but are focusing on Israel only as ‘vote rigging’ because they got the highest public vote two years running?

Do you think the Israeli government were involved in this?

Do you have evidence that what people post on social media is the truth?

So there were no advertisements as other posters seemingly falsely stated.

It has always been thus that the judge points have been politically motivated. I remember watching Eurovision as a kid (I am 53) and countries that had allegiances or were neighbours always voted for each other!

Of course it makes sense that the public vote would be different in terms of Israel especially in that there are many people who privately sympathise with Israel who understand they were forced into a war after a horrific mass scale attack where unimaginable atrocities were live streamed for all to see. It’s mind boggling that pro-Palestinians are so blinkered that they have forgotten this.

The songs were a cut above the usual dross as well, in which the singers could actually sing.

I don’t think the public are massively supportive of innocent civilian deaths in Gaza deliberately orchestrated by Palestinian leaders though.

Finally Russia invaded Ukraine in an act of aggression. The Ukrainian government and its civilians had not invaded Russia and barbarically murdered, raped and injured thousands of Russian civilians, as well as taking hundreds of civilians hostage including dead bodies, body parts, a baby, children and the elderly or paraded dead bodies through the streets to cheering crowds.

Not comparable at all and quite a distinction.

In the same way Hamas are not comparable to Israel, and no further warrants have been issued for live leaders hiding out in other countries like al- Hayya, Awadallah and al-Zahar, which rather stinks of double standards considering the hell they deliberately reigned onto their own people no?

Context matters.

@cordialzempy

It was last year and is still relevant today and will be again next year because supporters of Israel in the Eurovision are voting multiple times using many methods to try to push the narrative that the majority support them in the war.

This discussion, which is not in isolation, along with the many many online adverts pushing people to vote for Israel show that cheating is the only way the high public vote for Israel has been achieved

Take a look at the news. Support is seriously lacking as it was last year too. No one is ever a winner when they have to lower themselves to cheating

Since when have newspaper reports using unverified information been considered ‘facts’.

You might consider reading accounts from people who have actually been on the ground in Gaza including highly ranked retired UK and US military.

Not that you’d believe them as they don’t fit into your narrative.

Where is your verified evidence of starving children? As of early April there was 5 months worth of aid delivered to Gaza. Has there ever been evidence of starving children throughout this conflict despite constant reports that they were going to? I’m looking for facts as you presented your statement as btw.

Evidence that Israel has murdered over 13000 children? Murder means deliberately killing btw.

Evidence Dr Safiya has been tortured? He is detained on suspicion of holding a rank in Hamas. Do you have evidence to refute that?

No one is denying the Palestinians lived experience but why aren’t more people, protestors, politicians (and the media) calling for Hamas to surrender and release the remaining hostages instead of burying their heads in the sand about this being reason the war is still ongoing, and also the refusal of neighbouring countries to accept Palestinian refugees wanting and needing safe haven out of a war zone which generally happens in every other war.

Rather disingenuous to ignore this.

Do you have links to the online adverts? Screenshots?

Are you stating that even if Israel’s supporters were voting multiple times, that other country’s supporters don’t do this, and it is isolated to only Israel? Where is the evidence of this?

I mean Jews run the EBU just like they run the world, <sarcasm> so why didn’t they ensure Israel won?

They are pushing people to vote as well are they, do you mean forcing?

If I saw an advert for something I didn’t like, support or want, I don’t think I’d do what the adverts told me to do, would you?

Are you also implying that the people who voted for Israel are intellectually challenged and open to the persuasion of an advert they actually don’t agree with?

It’s surprising that the majority of viewers who are surely anti- Israel (according to you) even watched Eurovision and didn’t boycott the whole thing seeing as it’s sponsored by an Israeli company.

Now who’s the intellectually challenged ones?

The song was my winner. I liked her voice and.her presentation.

A lot of fake votes

I think if there was a legitimate story to mass promotion of voting for Israel the main stream media would have sent with it. The guardian can't exactly be called the most Israel supporting of papers yet we don't see the story in there.

I just think stories like this just increase anti semitism in repeating a trope that 'Jews rule the world' which has been around since antiquity.

Throwing out trope accusations to shut down conversation.

You've just posted something dated 2024 in a debate about Eurovision 2025 - please use better sources to make points and people will take you more seriously.

There is nothing conspiratorial about it. I can completely understand why pro- Israeli people would want to support Israel particularly at a time when its international image is so beleaguered.

A quick Google:
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1248860567246218&set=a.493960119402937
There’s some on instagram and TikTok
Put in « vote for Yuval Raphael » to see adverts asking people to use all 20 votes for her.

I’d be surprised the Guardian would publish. Seems fair game to me to be able to make most of the voting system in place. But don’t suppose it suggests anything what the general public think.

The Guardian also didn’t publish anything on tens of thousands marching in London to remember the Nakba this weekend!

news.sky.com/video/tens-of-thousands-of-people-attend-pro-palestine-protests-to-mark-77-years-since-the-nakba-13369908

I’m quite disturbed by the voting if I’m honest. I’m from a Jewish background but very worried by the actions of the Israeli government towards innocent children in Gaza, which are probably war crimes. I do not get how so many people voted for them in these circumstances (the song wasn’t THAT good!)

Seems more like it's you that would prefer another point of view isn't put forward.

If you google it or look on instagram you can see an ad on Times Square for starters. But this is nothing new. Counties often run paid ads to encourage Eurovision votes. Maybe Israel spent $$$ in comparison. we will never know. But it’s not a new thing to run ads and it’s not newsworthy or even a conspiracy. Israel are perfectly entitled to run ads and other countries did the same. They did not do anything wrong by doing so.

The reason the public vote did so well for them lies more in the fact that a small group of supporters voting multiple times for the same country can significantly influence the outcome. The other voters were spreading their votes among multiple countries.

It doesn’t even have to do with Jewish people voting alone. You have to remember that many far right groups support Israeli actions.

Are you suggesting that the far right are all watching Eurovision, that's quite a mental picture. Mind you I heard that Stalin liked to listen to Bucks Fizz so I guess stranger things have happened.

Where’s your evidence for something you’re stating as fact?

Just cannot stomach that a large majority of the public voted for Israel so that you have to keep insisting they cheated.

Pathetic.

While he was making his mind up?

Where did I say anyone cheated ??

Many countries have won in the past in this way. It’s not cheating, it’s just statistics and how public votes can work.

I’m saying it’s not an indicator of the public sentiment towards Israeli military action in Gaza.

@quantumbutterfly

They're not even bothering to watch. Just voting anyway. Along with some mumsnetters on here that said that they won’t be watching but will be voting for Israel anyway.
Check out the thread

‘Is anyone else boycotting Eurovision’

I expect they were too busy putting dubbin on their DMs and shaving their heads. Even Dr Who got the Eurovision bug with a bit of surreptitious political messaging thrown in.