Eurovision - was the jury vote impacted by politics?

[mids2019]

So Israel massively won the public vote but with relatively few jury votes.....strange.

Was the jury possibly trying to prevent Israel beating Austria as an Israel won would maybe have got the Eurovsion organisers in a tight spot?

Brilliant song and it shows the general public aren't automatons swayed by politics when it comes to music and acknowledging a brilliant human back story.

I think pro Israeli supporters voted for Israel and they drummed up support online from people who don’t usually watch.

But this again, this is not wrong, it’s not new and it’s not a conspiracy. I’m literally just saying that it’s not a reliable indicator of public sentiment towards the conflict.

I don't disagree there. Force teaming those who don't villify Israel or who dare to stand by Israelis with the far right I will object to...... (Although tbf the far right now seems to include people who are a little bit conservative because they're being viewed from so far away.)

I think Jewish people are very aware that 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' is not a truism.

Well 100% agree with you there. Far right supporters see Israel as fighting the common enemy of Muslims. They aren’t concerned by the death & destruction as long as the “right” people are dying.

Not everyone who supports Israel is far right globally. Although there is a huge amount of motivated support from this group online which likely contributed.

Are Muslims a common enemy? is that what you think?
Plenty of Muslims live in Israel.

And 30 years after his death?

Impressive.

I expect they have bucks fizz in hell.😶

Israel has become a bit of a model of ethno-nationalism for far right groups - thinking of the nation state law or the official language . The country has a system that preferences Jewish people. So, It fits into the far right groups anti Muslim worldview.

i feel like this is introduction 101 into why far right groups support Israel!

Why do you think Israel gets support from far right groups?

lol… on repeat!

That's quite a statement.

Your last question assumes I agree with you.

Would you also say that far right groups are just as likely to support caliphates, they just comprise a different demographic.

Well it’s a fact that they do. No they don’t because although islamic fundamentalists and far right ideologies share some thinking that is along the same lines, they are two separate ideologies. Again we are on 101 class stuff.

Anyway this has veered away from the original topic. Why don’t you go back to living in your alternative facts fantasy land where Israel getting votes in Eurovision = public support for Israel and I can stay in the rather depressing real world.

Rude and inaccurate.
You're saying far right when you mean white supremacist I suspect.

i’m not going to explain to how white supremacy is just one specific group within far right ideology.

All of this stuff is just factual. You could read the news and learn about far right politics and beliefs if you are interested. I’m certain you’ll find many ideas that you agree with. It has nothing to do with the thread topic now.

Ukraine at war - they won. Israel gets politically motivated support - top 3 for 3 years. It’s a popularity contest, not a music contest, with voters. The country jurys are better judges. It’s been this way for decades now and it’s really boring with many forgettable songs winning and we have no idea who the winners are ever again.

Our popular music is different. We have a global industry and don’t need Eurovision. We got second with a wailing type song 2 years ago - obviously should have won but a war vote got in the way. That’s the key to winning this - wailing, strobe lighting and not too many words. I was bored beyond belief on Saturday and never again. Better things to do!

Rude again. You're suggesting I'm far right in my politics. Quite wrong and dismissive. Not a lot of intellectual rigour.

Actually i live in Belgium and there were YouTube advertisements in French and Dutch to vote for Israel. Perhaps you didn’t get them in the UK.

Yes I am actually, I know and donate to help crises around the world in Sudan, in Yemen, Congo, Haiti, the list goes on.

The reason why this particular situation causes so much outrage is because Israel is an apartheid state, and the singer on Eurovision has a platform to tell her story, but Palestinian children do not. They are treated as second class citizens and that is fundamentally unjust. People speak out against it as they did against apartheid South Africa, because there is a denial of human rights. No one is condoning hamas, but I also do not support the forced upheaval, mass bombing and starvation of a civilian population. There is also been a deliberate media blackout of the reality on the ground in Palestine for much of the last 18 months. So the question becomes why do elites censor this? Sadly with the rest of the conflicts around the world, the west doesn’t have skin in the game and simply doesn’t care for the large part. This ‘what about the rest of the world’ is a lazy deflection from people who don’t want to tackle the real issues.

It’s not that simple though is it? Hamas have no doubt not helped the situation when it comes to aid, but in no way is Israel a compliant, helpless state simply defending itself. Perhaps they started out that way, perhaps that what they wanted the world to believe then, but in no way has this ever been a fight between Israel versus ‘the terrorists’. It’s so much more complicated than that and pre dates the last 18 months it by decades.

The terrible events of October 7th have been used as a carte Blanche for all out annihilation by IDF of all Palestinians, civilians included and anyone with their eyes open knows this.

But if people want to starve babies simply because they’re Palestinian how I can I change their minds or humanise them in their eyes?

Media blackout? It’s all over social media constantly and the MSM is constantly publishing unverified reports to demonise Israel.

Israel is an apartheid State? I think a lot of Israeli Arabs would disagree with you. Have you been there?

There has been a deluge of Palestinian stories out of the territories. One won an Oscar just recently! There is a usual amount of Palestinian ‘journalists’ seemingly with no prior credentials telling stories every day out of Gaza.

Palestinians are NOT Israeli citizens btw. How do you think Palestinians treat Israelis - Oct 7th anyone?

We must be living in an alternate reality.

It actually is that simple. Hamas could lay down their arms and surrender right now and return the hostages.

Israel were pretty helpless when they started out in 1948 against SIX Arab armies but they still prevailed. You’d think that would kind of be a deterrent unless you don’t think Oct 7th was an act of war and was just the Palestinians having some fun on an away day?

If you had your eyes open, you’d see that there are still over 5 million Palestinians, 2 million in Gaza, and they are far from being annihilated over a year and half into this war despite Israel having the capacity to within days, so your ridiculous assertion doesn’t make much sense now does it?

Nobody wants to starve Palestinian babies, even Israel, except the leaders their elders voted in it seems. I don’t think there’s much hope of you changing their minds or humanising their people that they deliberately use as cannon fodder and have done for decades.

Back to the OG topic ...

I have posted about this before and I will stand by what I said then: this has been a travesty - and it was entirely predictable that it would turn into one!

Israel before the ESC: "This is not political. We're only smol bean - why would you be mean to a young woman who survived the worst?"

Israel after ESC: "SEE??? THE SILENT MAJORITY LOVES US!!!"

This is after ...

• them taking out massive ads and mobilisation campaigns to "vote 20 times"
• their representative closing her performance with the nationalist slogan "am yisrael chai" (I thought this was not political?)

Meanwhile, nobody reports on what happened outside: Swiss police clubbing and teargassing, rubber bulleting and kettling until 4am local protesters. These included families with children, minors, and the elderly!

It was always obvious this was going to happen - since I'm currently based around Basel for work, this was always obvious.

Don't come at me with "poor smol bean Israel". They should have been excluded (and at this point the PM of Spain agrees!).

So you agree with what Israel is doing in Gaza and West Bank right now?

How do you describe what they are doing?

How many Palestinian journalists have been killed and deliberately targeted in Gaza? Over 160. So even if you disagree that Western media has deliberately not reported the situation in Gaza, you can’t deny that the IDF have deliberately targeted journalists. And I’m talking about people wearing press vests, not just anyone with a phone.

There will be unverified reports on both sides, undoubtedly, but I am interested in what people who support Israel define what is happening in Gaza right now. Because there is only one way to see those scenes.

Going back to Eurovision there is no way they should have been allowed to compete. Russia is banned and any breaking of international law should apply to all who break it, not just those who the West favours for its own ends. The world is made a less safe place by disregarding such laws; the massive hypocrisy being that Eurovision was set up in the aftermath of WW2, to promote peace and unity. The situation between Israel and Gaza makes a mockery of that.

No, I haven’t been. I know many that have. I’m not claiming to be an expert and I accept that you and others will feel differently, but we are all entitled to look at the evidence and have a view.

Oh come on, anyone can put a PRESS vest on. There seem be a large stock of brand new vests in Gaza if you look at some of the SM videos they post. It seems there are a high number of these ‘journalists’ who are affiliated with Hamas too. You can quite easily google this.

In Gaza, I believe Israel are at war with assorted terror organisations and their partners (all proxies of Iran), who actively want a high number of civilian deaths and for the war to continue as long as possible to demonise Israel on the world stage. Their supporters have enabled them very successfully. Despite this Israel has the lowest civilian to combatant death ratio in an urban war zone which is unprecedented.

In the West Bank, I believe Israel’s very valid security concerns due to geographical position, mean they have to have Israeli settlements and oversight to prevent the type of attack that occurred on Oct 7th. These concerns were valid before Oct 7th too. Hamas is in the West Bank despite posters on here saying they aren’t.

All could have been avoided, if the Palestinians had got on with building their own State since 1948, like Israel did, rather than dedicate most of their energies into trying to destroy Israel and kill Jews.

Everyone can’t just put a Press vest on.
Im sorry but this is just nonsense, please stop making stuff up.

Here
All 210 verified murders in Gaza of members of the press by the IDF and Israeli Govn bombing

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