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Conflict in the Middle East

Anti Israel Rhetoric is rife. Why?

1000 replies

cindyhove · 05/04/2025 14:19

As of April 5, 2025, numerous armed conflicts are ongoing worldwide, varying in scale and intensity. According to the Geneva Academy of International Humanitarian Law and Human Rights, over 110 armed conflicts are currently being monitored, encompassing both international and non-international engagements.
why is israel the only one to be demonised out of the current 110 conflicts?
The answer is blindingly obvious

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
AnnaBalfour · 05/04/2025 16:02

Honestly the absolute desperation and determination from some to define anyone horrified at the genocide of hundreds and thousands of CIVILIANS, mostly women and children as ‘anti semitic’ or as a ‘Hamas supporter’ is just so plain to see for what it really is.

Some lives clearly matter more than others…

Eyesopenwideawake · 05/04/2025 16:03

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AnnaBalfour · 05/04/2025 16:05

@Comedycook

how do you feel about the ethnic cleansing, starvation and murder of innocent victims no matter where they are? Even the ones in Gaza…

FOJN · 05/04/2025 16:06

effie19 · 05/04/2025 16:01

This debate is so tired now, but why does being horrified by Israel's actions mean that someone is "aligning themselves" with Hamas? Why does thinking one is awful = the other one must be great? That seems to be the argument that Israel's supporters use to prove anti-semitism, it must be a Jewish thing because you love Gazans and they're not Jewish.

I think Hamas and Israelis making decisions to or actively killing civilians are awful, Israel are doing more of it.

Supporters of Israel in this war seem to label anyone pro-Palestine as either uneducated or anti-semitic which is a very lazy way of blocking out any opposing view.

It's both a distraction and a silencing tactic because genocide is indefensible.

Ontheproverbialball · 05/04/2025 16:06

IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta · 05/04/2025 15:16

Many of the wars ongoing throughout the world are raging between peoples in poor, developing countries with non-democratic values who, to be blunt, many (usually xenophobic) people in developed democracies would write off as "they don't know any better; that's just their primitive culture".

Israel is a highly-developed, wealthy, modern, democratic western (politically and culturally, if not geographically) nation - and also a nuclear state. Basically, they are held to a much higher standard because of that.

Just like the outcry of disgust when the UK and USA (and others) start or react grossly disproportionately - such as the wars in Syria and Afghanistan. Many of us despise Blair, Bush and their ilk to this day because of it.

Also, I think it's very important to point out the difference between governments and leaders and the ordinary populations. Just like, in Russia, the thinking people blame and hate Putin and his henchmen, but don't apportion any kind of blame to Anna and Dmitri who are hard-working farmers making a living in their community in Rostov-on-Don.

If some people do start to conflate the governments making highly controversial choices with all of the everyday citizens, that may well indicate a racist and prejudiced mindset.

Firstly, the comparison with UK or USA fighting a foreign war is a false equivalence. Israel has a neighbour dedicated to a genuine genocide against its people. They want to eradicate all Jews from Israel. The Hamas fighters are on film going through the Kibbutz looking for civilians with the words, ‘where are the Jews? Where are the Jewish dogs’. We can see by their indiscriminate murder of babies, children, women and men, that this was genuine racist hatred.

If your neighbour is committed to your genuine genocide and proves its intent with a mass attack on your civilians, you have to respond and you have to destroy them. Wars are won only when one side is so destroyed it has no choice but to surrender. That’s how wars end. And still Israel warns civilians about areas it will attack.

Hamas are still sending terrorists into Israel to murder civilians. They are open about their plans for another October 7 th. The government of Gaza does not warn Israeli citizens of its attacks. The Israeli government does warn Gazans.

I think many people here are really ignorant about what Hamas are and what their intentions are.

Ultimately, Israel is a democratic country which has been subject to a mass terrorist outrage by a terrorist dictatorship government which its neighbour openly intent on its genocidal destruction.

Comedycook · 05/04/2025 16:09

AnnaBalfour · 05/04/2025 16:05

@Comedycook

how do you feel about the ethnic cleansing, starvation and murder of innocent victims no matter where they are? Even the ones in Gaza…

Jews were ethnically cleansed from the ME/North Africa....do you know how many Jews are left in Yemen? Go on take a guess?

Then tell me why the sheep in the UK aren't up in arms about it?

Ontheproverbialball · 05/04/2025 16:10

FOJN · 05/04/2025 15:53

We killed German civilians in WW2 in great numbers.

Probably why we thought the 4th Geneva Convention (1949) was necessary.

Are you genuinely saying you thought WW2 could have been fought without killing enemy civilians?

Is that seriously what you have to resort to, to be able to keep being justified in attacking Israel?

Comedycook · 05/04/2025 16:11

And the idea that aid hasn't been getting in...this has been going on for nearly 18 months...if Israel weren't letting aid in, there wouldn't be a single person left in Gaza.

dairydebris · 05/04/2025 16:12

TempestTost · 05/04/2025 16:00

Iam pretty balanced in thinking fault lies very much with both sides, who both seem to be behaving in horrible and inhumane ways, with what's going on in Israel/Palestine, but I think YABVU OP.

For one thing, yes, there are many other conflicts, but most are not that controversial in terms of who is "at fault". Usually there is broad agreement on one or both sides being the cause.

With the situation in Israel, there has always been controversy about the idea of establishing a state like that, in that particular situation, for all kinds of reasons, and many people have had strong feelings on both sides.

Recently however, some new elements are in play:

CRT and DEI type theories, and anti-colonialism have taught a lot of younger people that anyone who is "brown" must always be the oppressed, and also righteous, in any conflict. Many of them seem to have little idea about the realities of the situation and will simply defend anything the Palestinians or Hamas does, no matter how awful.

Political tribalism has increased to the point that many people don't even seem to think it is ok to see issues as complex, or that there may be issues on both sides. It's just a "My side good" way of thinking. ANyone who disagrees is demonized as evil.

Performative virtue is hugely big on the left now.

I think no matter how you slice it, there is some horrible stuff going on from the Israeli side on this, and they are seen as the stronger, more technologically advanced, able side, which is a fair assessment as far as it goes. (And there are a lot of Israeli citizens who feel this keenly as well, it's not a far-out opinion.)

Also, many in the west have no experience of war or living in a war zone and don't understand what it involves.

ALl this means is a lot of people are seeing this in a very black and white way, and feel their political tribe requires them to be very performative and vocal in condemning Israel.

The fact that many on the right won't acknowledge any wrong on the part of Israel is also a problem - the two sides drive each other to take on more extreme positions.

Excellent post

WhereYouLeftIt · 05/04/2025 16:12

dairydebris · 05/04/2025 15:07

Anti Israel rhetoric is rife because Hamas et al have really, really good PR and a lot of western Europeans feel colonial settler white guilt.

This.

I read a comment recently, can't remember where I read it or the exact wording, but it was along the lines of 'you do not win a war by defeating the enemy's soldiers, you win it by winning over their civilians'.

I do feel that is Hamas's strategy. Their propaganda is endemic, and it has seeped into many people's consciousness (especially those who work at the BBC). What has also seeped into many people's consciousness is that "colonial settler white guilt" which some feel is the mark of their progressiveness. I guess they don't see that actually it leads them to 'white saviour' complex, but hey-ho ...

Tattletwat · 05/04/2025 16:13

mbosnz · 05/04/2025 15:59

Well currently I'm wondering how one couldn't be outraged by the murder of medics, still with their gloves on, being murdered while attending, and buried in a shallow grave? How the FUCK does anything justify that?

Oh well shit happens if you go into a war zone.

I hate this stuff that medics and journalists of they die it's worse than a normal person dieing.

verysmellyjelly · 05/04/2025 16:14

LittleBigHead · 05/04/2025 15:15

The answer is blindingly obvious

Indeed. Casual, and not so casual, anti-Semitism. Or better put: Jew hatred. A belief that he state of Israel should not exist - and the HAmas view that all Jews should be wiped from the earth.

I think that the anti-Semitism is just so endemic that people don't really see it.

Yes. This is why.

Mylegishangingoff · 05/04/2025 16:15

Comedycook · 05/04/2025 16:11

And the idea that aid hasn't been getting in...this has been going on for nearly 18 months...if Israel weren't letting aid in, there wouldn't be a single person left in Gaza.

Aid has been blocked for over a month. Why are you calling it an 'idea' like it isn't a reality?

One month since Israel closed all crossings to Gaza for goods, all UN-supported bakeries have closed, markets are empty of most fresh vegetables and hospitals are rationing painkillers and antibiotics.

Edited because my link wasn't working but obviously it's all over the news. It's pretty disgusting that people are denying this.

FixTheBone · 05/04/2025 16:18

JandamiHash · 05/04/2025 14:35

Well it didn’t take long to deny antisemitism is about Jewish people. So predictable.

You’re bang on OP. People either don’t bother to find out, or ignore? The long history of Israel and why they didn’t even get one day before being invaded by neighbouring antisemites, and they’ve been targetted ever since. It’s a war - casualties happen on both sides, and Hamas have the power to stop it now but won’t. But let’s just do the easy route and blame the Jews ey

Didnt take long for someone to conflate criticism of israel, and by extension the isreali government with criticism of all Jews....

Fwiw I'm fully behind all israelis protesting against their own government. Netanyahu and the people supporting him are evil monsters.

TempestTost · 05/04/2025 16:18

Also, I think it's very important to point out the difference between governments and leaders and the ordinary populations. Just like, in Russia, the thinking people blame and hate Putin and his henchmen, but don't apportion any kind of blame to Anna and Dmitri who are hard-working farmers making a living in their community in Rostov-on-Don.
If some people do start to conflate the governments making highly controversial choices with all of the everyday citizens, that may well indicate a racist and prejudiced mindset.

I've noticed something new recently with people's attitudes to this:

In the past I've often seen peoplecritize about Israel mainly in terms of government policy. In a way this makes sense, because it is a democracy, so while we know not every person in the nation will agree, we do tend to assume a certain broad support for government policy. Plus, they have an educated, in many ways very westernized population, so we see them as similar to ourselves - in fact lots of people in the west have relatives in Israel.

They tend to sympathize with Palestinians as a people, poor and with poor access to education and jobs, under leadership that isn't really a democracy in the way we are used to, even if there have been elections in the past. Rightly or wrongly people didn't associate them closely with Hamas.

And while people have felt they understood why Palestinians were so easily radicalized, I don't think many thought Hamas was a very good organization in its actions, or even ideologically in many cases. Many sympathetic to Palestine saw Hamas as standing in the way.

Lately, I have been seeing a lot of young people who don't make any distinction of that kind. They see Hamas as freedom fighters against white oppressors, and fully justified. They tend to also believe that non-white people can't be racists or bigots, and all oppressed people are on the same side. If the oppressed take any action, it seems, it is justified in the minds of these people. They are staggeringly ignorant really, but it seems to me that it is really new to have so many people in the west thinking that way.

Comedycook · 05/04/2025 16:18

Mylegishangingoff · 05/04/2025 16:15

Aid has been blocked for over a month. Why are you calling it an 'idea' like it isn't a reality?

One month since Israel closed all crossings to Gaza for goods, all UN-supported bakeries have closed, markets are empty of most fresh vegetables and hospitals are rationing painkillers and antibiotics.

Edited because my link wasn't working but obviously it's all over the news. It's pretty disgusting that people are denying this.

Edited

I'm talking about the tiresome rhetoric that no aid has been going in at all during this conflict....the crowds of people at the hostage release looked the picture of health...apart from the actual hostages of course.

bridgetreilly · 05/04/2025 16:20

Israel may indeed have been under attack since the start, but their territory has consistently increased through every conflict. They are not just defending themselves,

I think most people don’t have a ’side’ in this conflict and are happy to condemn the terrible actions of both. But apparently that’s not good enough to avoid being antisemitic.

Ontheproverbialball · 05/04/2025 16:20

AnnaBalfour · 05/04/2025 16:02

Honestly the absolute desperation and determination from some to define anyone horrified at the genocide of hundreds and thousands of CIVILIANS, mostly women and children as ‘anti semitic’ or as a ‘Hamas supporter’ is just so plain to see for what it really is.

Some lives clearly matter more than others…

Well I see it the other way around.

I see the dogged determination to see Israel’s defense of itself country from a terrorist dictatorship that launched a massacre on its civilians as a ‘genocide’ as a way to seek to silence those mounting any decency of Israel.

’Oh you support genocide do you’
’some lives clearly matter more to you, because you support genocide’

There blatantly is no genocide. Israel is clearly warning civilians of bombing attacks. We literally saw a mass migration of Gazans to Gaza in the ceasefire - all this people lived because of the actions of Israel.

A good deal of the people who died in the war, could have lived if their own government had sheltered them in the very extensive tunnel network they built in preparation for this war that they started. Why not accuse Hamas of genocide then?

Hamas are the ones putting out public statements glorying in their own civilians deaths - why not accuse them of genocide?

Hamas brought ALL of this, knowingly, deliberately, on their own people. They have recently murdered their own citizens who have started protesting against them for all the death they have brought on them.

Blame Hamas. Blame the terrorists. Blame the dictatorship.

Comedycook · 05/04/2025 16:21

Ontheproverbialball · 05/04/2025 16:20

Well I see it the other way around.

I see the dogged determination to see Israel’s defense of itself country from a terrorist dictatorship that launched a massacre on its civilians as a ‘genocide’ as a way to seek to silence those mounting any decency of Israel.

’Oh you support genocide do you’
’some lives clearly matter more to you, because you support genocide’

There blatantly is no genocide. Israel is clearly warning civilians of bombing attacks. We literally saw a mass migration of Gazans to Gaza in the ceasefire - all this people lived because of the actions of Israel.

A good deal of the people who died in the war, could have lived if their own government had sheltered them in the very extensive tunnel network they built in preparation for this war that they started. Why not accuse Hamas of genocide then?

Hamas are the ones putting out public statements glorying in their own civilians deaths - why not accuse them of genocide?

Hamas brought ALL of this, knowingly, deliberately, on their own people. They have recently murdered their own citizens who have started protesting against them for all the death they have brought on them.

Blame Hamas. Blame the terrorists. Blame the dictatorship.

Exactly....Hamas absolutely love it when Palestinian civilians die....it's good pr for them. The more the merrier as far as they're concerned.

TempestTost · 05/04/2025 16:22

Comedycook · 05/04/2025 16:09

Jews were ethnically cleansed from the ME/North Africa....do you know how many Jews are left in Yemen? Go on take a guess?

Then tell me why the sheep in the UK aren't up in arms about it?

The same is true of Christians, no one cares much about that either I seems. Christianity is a shadow in the Middle East/North Africa, where it originated.

Comedycook · 05/04/2025 16:23

TempestTost · 05/04/2025 16:22

The same is true of Christians, no one cares much about that either I seems. Christianity is a shadow in the Middle East/North Africa, where it originated.

Agree

FOJN · 05/04/2025 16:23

Ontheproverbialball · 05/04/2025 16:10

Are you genuinely saying you thought WW2 could have been fought without killing enemy civilians?

Is that seriously what you have to resort to, to be able to keep being justified in attacking Israel?

Err no, some civilians will always be killed in war but the carpet bombing of cities which had no strategic military advantage was totally unnecessary. We clearly thought so after the war do because we came up the 4th Geneva Convention.

TheFrendo · 05/04/2025 16:27

Propaganda has persuaded people to think Hamas are the good guys.

Mylegishangingoff · 05/04/2025 16:27

Comedycook · 05/04/2025 16:18

I'm talking about the tiresome rhetoric that no aid has been going in at all during this conflict....the crowds of people at the hostage release looked the picture of health...apart from the actual hostages of course.

Edited

Oh so you aren't talking about the fact that nothing has gone in in over a month? That doesn't worry you, doesnt strike you as wrong or as something we should be talking about?

Have you seen the health of the people who weren't there? The ones with their límbs blown off or their skin burnt off or the cancer patients?

It's all just so tiresome that people keep talking about them isn't it Sad

KimberleyClark · 05/04/2025 16:29

Hoardasurass · 05/04/2025 14:39

There are no churches in gaza nor were there before the war and no Israel are not being antisemitic

Yes there are. Three. The Gaza Baptist Church, the Catholic Church of the Holy Family and the Eastern Orthodox Church of Saint Porphyrius. Not all Gazans are Muslims.

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