Have the events of the last couple of days changed your mind on the Israel/Gaza crisis?

[BaMamma]

Not only, but including, the macabre theatre with the coffins of the Bibas babies, Oded Lifshitz, and, as we now know, a currently anonymous Palestinian woman.

The locked coffins with no keys.

The antisemitic poster of Netanyahu as a blood sucking vampire.

The celebrations in Gaza, happy, joyful people surrounding those coffins., children dancing, parents smiling.

The 'mix-up' over Shiri Bibas body.

The discovery that the babies were murdered, not killed in an airstrike.

Does any of that change your mind about the rightness of your position on Israel and Palestine/Gaza?

I am just trying to point out the basics of human nature that have led to war, crimes, atrocities etc over thousands of years! And trying to highlight that violence tends to beget violence. I am not trying to justify it in any way, but please feel free to misinterpret what I am saying - I have said my point and I don't want to get into a prolonged argument over this.

I know what understandable means. And whilst your responses have certainly become more measured than earlier responses you still haven't answered my question?

How about closer to home, we know about the British government collusion with loyalists, Bloody Sunday etc were IRA terror attacks understandable?

And trying to highlight that violence tends to beget violence.

So the rise of right wing violence/terror in the UK is a logical response & reaction & you understand that?

By that same logic one could perfectly well excuse Israel’s retaliation after October 7th.
Having over a thousand of your citizens raped, tortured and killed in a single day will unlikely make you have ‘warm thoughts’ towards your attackers.

Well, I don't know enough about that to answer you well there. But there will always be the question of when exactly (if ever) violence becomes justifiable, and the answer will differ depending on perspective. Eg suffragettes, ANC. Not intending by to suggest those are comparable situations.

but please feel free to misinterpret what I am saying - I have said my point and I don't want to get into a prolonged argument over this.

No one misinterpreted what you said, you are just backtracking.

@BambooBambou I'm not asking you to justify it but to state whether it was understandable or not?

Well, I don't know enough about that to answer you well there.

It's funny isn't. So many are experts on the politics of the Middle East but have very little knowledge of the conflict that actually happened here.

@BambooBambou is right wing terror in the UK understandable or not?

Actually I happen to have spent a lot more time there and I am far less familiar with the history of the IRA.

How can it even be surprising that some of those people in Gaza would cheer the deaths of the tormentors who did this to them? That there is not more hate, not more aggression among the Palestinians, after all of what has been done to them, is what I personally find surprising

You weren't struggling to understand here... & to me it definitely reads as some justification.

I personally don’t understand the politics and avoid the news when I can ,but seeing the images of the Mum with her children being taken by these creatures today have really disturbed me. I actually cannot imagine how the Mother felt..beyond my comprehension.

Actually I happen to have spent a lot more time there and I am far less familiar with the history of the IRA.

Presumably you have spent time in the UK though?

Yes I agree

@ploppydoppy I have tried to explain to you my use of the word "understandable" previously but I think there is still misunderstanding. I am not equating "understandable" with logical, or justified, or excusable. I am just talking about basic human reactions. And the point is we can have reactions, but that doesn't make it right to act on those. I don't think any terror is right, in general - that is my answer. I think killing is wrong full stop and I am a pacifist but recognise at the same time that various wars/violent causes in history have averted further killing/injustice.

I don't think any terror is right, in general - that is my answer.

Well that's a bit of a contrast to your earlier posts. 😆

And so much obfuscation...

So basically it's understandable when Palestinians see jewish babies as tormentors & you are surprised there isn't more hate but terror is bad & not understandable in the context of right wing terror &/or attacks on UK civilians.

You could have saved a lot of time & said that posts back...

Feel free to put words in my mouth 😃

Oh don't worry, you are painting a pretty revealing picture enough with your own words.

No, Hamas's.behaviour hasn't shocked me. They showed what they were made of on October 7th. They were proud of the mutilations, the slaughter of babies and so on, considering these actions a great victory.

Now with the hostage exchanges they have refined their cruelty. Hamas members stood and laughed at Mr Bibas when he answered their question : what are you looking forward to most when you are free? He answered seeing his family and the heroes of Hamas burst out laughing because they knew his family were all dead. Who said Hamas didn't have a sense of humour?

There were more jolly japes with the keys to the coffins and the mixup with Mrs Bibas body.And the murders of her baby and her child, barehanded murder of those children.
And the terrorists celebrated another great victory.

Feel free to put words in my mouth

I just gave you the rope...

No I don’t think they have changed very much.

Is that because you didn't expect any better from Hamas and their supporters?

If you think it ISNT antisemitic then you’re deluded. The Nazi magazine in the 1930’s used to use an old antisemitic myth in their cartoons of Jews sucking blood. Also the exaggerated nose. Go figure.

Same.

Im pleased to see the tide turning on the terrorists Hamas but certainly won’t be forgetting their supporters who touted them as peacekeepers and people who spent their Saturdays intimidating Jewish people in London by supporting these terrorists

I think what most people feel is grief at the sight of children’s coffins. It was heartbreaking to see.