Have the events of the last couple of days changed your mind on the Israel/Gaza crisis?

[BaMamma]

Not only, but including, the macabre theatre with the coffins of the Bibas babies, Oded Lifshitz, and, as we now know, a currently anonymous Palestinian woman.

The locked coffins with no keys.

The antisemitic poster of Netanyahu as a blood sucking vampire.

The celebrations in Gaza, happy, joyful people surrounding those coffins., children dancing, parents smiling.

The 'mix-up' over Shiri Bibas body.

The discovery that the babies were murdered, not killed in an airstrike.

Does any of that change your mind about the rightness of your position on Israel and Palestine/Gaza?

You honestly don't think the moral high ground goes to the ones who aren't kidnapping and violently murdering babies with bare hands? Batshit.

@Sausagenbacon , absolutely this.

No..I have always stood with Israel

No it hasn’t. I think when men are violent, women and children die. Violent men are in all walks of life. Nothing has changed my mind in the last year or two weeks. It is heartbreaking that all these innocent women and children have been murdered

It is possible to believe Hamas are monsters, but Palestinians do not = Hamas, and similarly innocent Israeli citizens like the Bibas family are not the same as the Israeli government. That's what I've always thought.

It must be very easy to sit in your nice safe bunker / tunnel / office and make decisions. I think citizens of both countries have been victims.

Mostly I would agree with you @BaMamma but I read today on a random forum about an actor with strong Zionist beliefs and Joe dare people like him for his craft. It still shocks me.

The level of antisemitism about is frightening. But that's another thread x

Firstly, are you really not aware that Jews are indigenous to that area?

Secondly, how can equivocate over the moral high ground after watching how Hamas treated those bodies and how the, not starving, civilian population had a party over their coffins?

Well said!

Ordinary Palestinians were celebrating over the coffins of the returned bodies, they were smiling and dancing, their children were smiling and dancing.

There's been conflict over the land far before 1940. Record of Jewish law there dates back to the 1500's and would have been earlier, Islamic/Jewish conflicts have flared up there for hundreds of years.
At times there has been relative peace, but every century there's been multiple notable wars/conflicts.
It just doesn't work, and it's not as simple as going "well the Jews were there before Islam even existed" because the Muslims there have known no other home for generations either.

@MissAmbrosia Being Jewish and Israel are not the same thing, yet Jews are still blamed

I dont particularly support either 'side' but have been shouted down previously when I made the point that Gazans of course will support and have the same viewpoint as Hamas, they're not exactly one and the same, but not in discord with Hamas either.

I also dont support Israel's behaviour over decades which it will say is about defending itself against hostile territories on all sides, yet Palestians will have used as justification to support terrorism (one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter)

Whole things a shit show

I appreciate your level headed response, but I would query the Gazans being indigenous to the area in question. It was the Jewish homeland, they were displaced by the Arabs, then they've come back and displaced them. I totally appreciate 1948 is in living memory and the Arabs displacing Jews isn't but I think it's really hard when 2 groups both have legitimate claims to same land. I wouldn't say the Gazans are indigenous

Not changed my mind, but am Irish. I am pro Palestine but anti Hamas and anti Zionist but not antisemitic.

Well if the entire population has all been radicalised by the events of the last few years they would then come under the umbrella of "Hamas" for me.

Likewise.

I can't believe all the posters saying 'both sides are just as bad as each other' and 'there's no moral high ground'. The suffering of innocents on all sides is terrible and blameworthy, but I am appalled that posters cannot see a moral difference between the actions of Palestine and those of Israel. Has anyone seen groups of Israeli citizens dancing with joy at the deaths of Palestinians? Have the Palestinian prisoners been paraded on stage before being released? Have IDF soldiers deliberately killed children with their bare hands?

Hasn’t changed my mind. I stand with Israel, always.

hamas are deranged monsters who have brainwashed the Palestinian people. I don’t recall ever seeing people handing out baklava on the streets of tel aviv to celebrate when Palestinians are murdered or Israeli civilians breaking into Gaza to kidnap and murder babies.

Sickening. I hope someone blow up photos of the Bibas family and the gloating tubby ghouls with those coffins. The police will once again be defending the antisemites and death cult supporters no doubt. Shameful.

No. I stand with Israel always.

Thanks for 'tubby ghouls', they really are beneath contempt.

Anti-Zionism is a nonsensical. If you are against the existence of the state of Israel you are either supporting ethnic cleansing or you are against self-determination. Neither is a great look.

I feel the same.
Just imagine thousands of Israelis running over the border into Gaza, raping, torturing and killing people, burning them alive and then dragging hostages back into Israel for the civilians in the streets to jeer and spit at.

No reasonable person can support Israel (in its current iteration being led by the extreme right wing) or Hamas, they are both extremist entities who are bent on inflicting death and destruction on one another.

What happened to this family is truly awful, but the same thing has happened to literally thousands of Palestinian families at the hands of Israel. An eye for an eye makes everyone blind. What Israel and Palestine need is the international community to wake up and intervene. It’s a dreadful mess and October 7th was the heinous result of decades of occupation and oppression. Unfortunately this region will be trapped in a cycle of violence until the international community is able to successfully practice diplomacy and de-escalate the situation.
Until Palestinians are granted human rights the situation will continue — it mirrors apartheid South Africa as Nelson Mandela himself said. You cannot steal land and oppress people with impunity and not expect it to have dire consequences; read every similar situation in the history of mankind and it ends the same way. The trouble is ignorance and greed prevails, especially in the West, where governments seem to advocate Israeli propaganda and don’t care about anyone who isn’t rich or isn’t white.