Have the events of the last couple of days changed your mind on the Israel/Gaza crisis?

[BaMamma]

Not only, but including, the macabre theatre with the coffins of the Bibas babies, Oded Lifshitz, and, as we now know, a currently anonymous Palestinian woman.

The locked coffins with no keys.

The antisemitic poster of Netanyahu as a blood sucking vampire.

The celebrations in Gaza, happy, joyful people surrounding those coffins., children dancing, parents smiling.

The 'mix-up' over Shiri Bibas body.

The discovery that the babies were murdered, not killed in an airstrike.

Does any of that change your mind about the rightness of your position on Israel and Palestine/Gaza?

Why would it.
Thats extremely one sided…..
The lives of Palestinians are of equal importance !
I do not put greater importance on one over another except

i do believe innocent children on both sides should have been released and in fact never taken by either side in the first place.

Do you realise how many hostages are still held in Gaza after 16 months? Sixty three apparently but some are dead. I'm well aware of what their families want - their loved ones released and back home.

The initial goals of the war were first to get their people back and secondly to eliminate Hamas. There's no secret of either of those aims. Sadly they haven't been achieved.

The fact that people on here are even condoning innocent civilians, including babies, being taken as hostages is massively fucked up. I doubt they’d be doing that if the hostages weren’t Israeli/Jews.

I don’t think the government took much notice of apparent goal of the ‘protest’ marches because they knew it was insane to call for a ‘ceasefire now’ days after a country was invaded by savage monsters (that includes the ‘innocent’ civilians involved in the kidnappings and murders), thousands killed and injured, hundreds taken hostage and the immediate response is ‘nasty Jews have no right to retaliate and must negotiate with these savages to get their children back’. They knew that stopping the marches would cause even more social disorder so once again, let the Jews be scapegoated and persecuted, because well who cares!

The hostage posters being ripped down, wearing those Palestinian scarves to cover faces and chanting From the River to the Sea (despite most of them not knowing which River or Sea) rather gave the game away.

Anyone who went on these marches should be disgusted with themselves.

You emboldened terrorists by giving them your support and made sure they will never surrender. The blood from that is on your hands.

@LetThereBeLove
you must be aware of the times Netanyahu rejected the release of hostages.
November 2023

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say

January 2024

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/22/israel-gaza-war-hamas-hostages-release-benjamin-netanyahu-rejects-deal

May 2024

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-to-reject-negotiators-bid-to-formulate-new-hostage-deal-proposal/amp/

July 2024

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/middleeast/netanyahu-derailed-hostage-deal-in-july-intl/index.html

etc etc

No wonder the hostage families were upset with Netanyahu’s approach.

I have read he - Netanyahu- was more worried about his political survival and maintaining his precarious coalition than he was about a release of hostages and the accompanying ceasefire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz55y6k0p5go.amp

Please point out the posters condoning the taking of hostages?

You are probably right - it made so much more sense to indiscriminately kill people then negotiate to get some hostages released. Then indiscriminately kill more people while levelling everything then accept a ceasefire deal that had been put on the table 8 months prior.

While not destroying Hamas.

No matter your side of the fence on this the Israeli government don’t look good.

I’m not saying the Israeli government’s response was proportionate but you talk so glibly about negotiating to get “some hostages released “.

Negotiating with a murderous group of psychopaths is never going to be easy - and unless Hamas believe they’re dealing with a tough ( even ruthless) opponent, I believe they would ride roughshod over negotiations. Diplomacy and compromise are not their primary way of operating.

Ok, so if Hamas’s punishment for murdering hundreds of people and kidnapping hundreds more was ‘a few days of negotiation’, what the fuck would stop them from doing it again? If anything it shows murder and kidnap is a way of getting what you want?

Yes - there were plenty of posters who implied October 7th was the result of Israeli injustice and Hamas had no other options.

Are you actually serious?

Don't you think it's hypocritical of essad_48 to post a video about dehumanisation while also posting pro-Hamas content and allowing hundred of comments under their videos comparing Jewish people to cockroaches and praising Hitler and the Holocaust?

Well at least we are in agreement that men, women and children in Palestine were collectively killed and maimed in punishment for the actions of Hamas.

What was the benefit of waiting 8 months to accept the exact same ceasefire?

The Israeli Government seem to think murdering, bombing, denying aid and medical facilities and the entire destruction of all infrastructure is the way to get what they want
Who’s to think they will just carry on regardless of any negotiations.

If ‘what they want’ is for Hamas to stop torturing, kidnapping and murdering their citizens, then that is very different from a grudge over land.

I’d say they are both murderous psychopaths but clearly at the moment Netanyahu is running roughshod over negotiations. He and his far right government were the ones to stop the last detainee release in contravention of the ceasefire agreement!
The IDF are also continuing to kill people during the ceasefire and indeed shot two children ( for example ) in their back and head using snipers, one in a vehicle as the IDF drove past the kids garden!

And Gaza, which wants Sharia law, isn’t ’far right’?

That’s what the IDF and their jailors do to Palestinians. And have been for years now.
The Palestinians want to be left alone and not under the control of Israel.
It’s very simple really.

Is that a denial that Netanyahus current supporters in the Government and his top ministers aren’t far right.
Is that a deflection away from the truth .

Oh Right ….

That quote is from a completely different thread as this thread didn't start until 22 Feb! I couldn't find any quote from Liv999 from 9 Feb, but on 10 Feb she made clear that what you have assumed was condonation of Hamas was not her position. Again, please can people stop imputing opinions to others which they have not clearly expressed!

Why don’t you answer my question? Is Gaza, in wanting Sharia law, far right or not?

I have to say it does baffle me that people think a liberal nation that legalised gay marriage long before many western countries, is the oppressive one out of one that imposes laws that hates women, children and gay people

Maybe they should stop joining and supporting a Jew hating extremely violent terrorist group if they just wanna be left alone. Just a thought

Hamas have said they will stand down as a Governing body and allow the election of another if Israel agree to stop the war
That May or may not be the truth of what they actually believe, we don’t know and won’t unless they are left alone in peace…( we can’t believe any side as we’ve seen actions speak louder than words, for those who look anyway )

What ever an elected Government puts in place is purely hypothetical on your and others part.
So no, I don’t consider Sharia law acceptable at all. I believe in complete democracy, free will and free speech for all.
However
No one knows what would actually happen

Everyone is just guessing and attempting to put a Palestine Governed by actual Palestinians in the worst possible light because second guessing the worst possible scenario fits in with the narrative.

They want to be left alone do they?

a large majority of people in Gaza now indicate strong commitment to being Palestinian (94%), achieving national sovereignty (86%), and the right of refugees to return to their ancestral towns and villages lost during Israel’s creation in 1948 (90%)