Have the events of the last couple of days changed your mind on the Israel/Gaza crisis?

[BaMamma]

Not only, but including, the macabre theatre with the coffins of the Bibas babies, Oded Lifshitz, and, as we now know, a currently anonymous Palestinian woman.

The locked coffins with no keys.

The antisemitic poster of Netanyahu as a blood sucking vampire.

The celebrations in Gaza, happy, joyful people surrounding those coffins., children dancing, parents smiling.

The 'mix-up' over Shiri Bibas body.

The discovery that the babies were murdered, not killed in an airstrike.

Does any of that change your mind about the rightness of your position on Israel and Palestine/Gaza?

I think some people would say that your last point has happened in the past or Ive seen people refer to that

No I havent seen Israeli citizens doing those things, however I think I read the vast majority of Israeli's support Israel's actions and have supported their actions over the lasts few decades even if most Israelis may not be massive supports of Netenyahu himself

Hamas ideology (jihad) is to kill all Jews, I already knew this.

A son of one of Hamas original leaders (Mosab Hassan Yousef) has good insight into Hamas ideology (he left the group and has videos on YouTube).

Also
Hamas ideology - Islamic revolution
Hamas ideology The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. (The Day of Judgment is when they believe Mahdi will arrive).

Has not changed my mind - will always stand with Israel.

‘Gloating tubby ghouls’ sums yesterday’s spectators pretty well.

I have moved my position from being in ‘it’s complicated’ territory and probably leaning slightly towards more sympathetic view to Palestine to being very very firmly pro Israel and any measure necessary taken to ensure their safety they must do.

@WhatMothersDo22

How on earth you are morally equating Israel bombing terrorist targets in a country that has attacked them & massacred their people with...

A terrorist group who rape, kidnap, torture, starve and murder the elderly, women, children and babies

Is DISGUSTING.

There is no moral equivalence. We can argue about whether Israel should bomb their TERRORIST targets when Hamas are using civilians as human shields, but it is in no way equivalent to the actual ongoing attempted genocide (Hamas, who are widely supported by Palestinian people, literally aiming to wipe out the Jews).

Murder victims and war casualties are two different things on the moral spectrum.

Seeing that video of the Babis children then the last one of them being taken with their mum she looks terrified as you would be just totally awful 😢😢😢

@anonhop well said 🙌🙌🙌

same here

I have always been a firm supporter of Israel particularly after the horror that was inflicted on Oct 7th. Sadly today is just another sad example of the hatred and barbarity they face.

However if I was sitting on the fence I think today’s actions by Hamas, their deliberate brutal murder of those babies and the treatment of their mother while they sing and dance in celebration - it would definitely kill any sympathy I might have had. They won’t rest until the Jews are eliminated. We will never stop fighting to protect our Jewish friends.

I'll never understand the mindset of so many posters here that think anyone appalled at the destruction in Gaza and the murder if thousands of children is automatically pro Hamas.

What do you mean by anti Zionist?

No state or something else?

Absolutely not. Imagine if the general Irish population was held accountable for the terrorism of the IRA back in the 70s. Would it have been acceptable to kill tens of thousands of Irish citizens in an effort to eradicate the terrorists? Please explain why it's different in Gaza, if you can.

Well said

I'm Jewish and it doesn't change my opposition to Israel's response at all.

I don't think we'll ever know how those poor babies died. The Israeli army has said their captors murdered them. Hamas say they were killed in an air raid. Frankly, I trust neither as a source of truth.

There are people who rejoice in harms to 'the enemy' on both sides. There are those who recognise one another's humanity and fight for peace on both sides.

For the 1st time, I want to be able to demonstrate my support of Israel by wearing some kind of symbol. But I don't know what it would be. Has anyone any thoughts?

I think Hamas and Netanyahu are as bad as each other.

Both kill children and they're both disgusting.

@Inextremis Hamas targeted civilians, they consistently target civilians, they use rape and kidnapping then they use their own people as human shields. They knowingly and deliberately murdered babies and openly state they want to wipe out Israel altogether. It's terrorism on a different level.

I think it's a yellow ribbon

The IDF has said they were murdered on the basis of forensic evidence which they have shared for corroboration.

You can't 'both sides' this, Israelis have not celebrated Palestinian deaths in the way that Palestinians have been shown celebrating over the coffins of two babies, a peace activist, and an unknown woman who Hamas said was the mother of those babies, under a disgusting antiemetic poster. Smiling, dancing, children.

Yellow ribbons for hostages are a thing. Some people are wearing some metal 'dog tags', if you search 'bring them home' dog tags I think you will find them.

1. The IRA were not the elected government of Ireland.
2. The IRA were not financed by Iran.
3. The IRA did not launch rockets at the UK.
4. The IRA did not invade the UK, rape and murder a ton of people and then take hostages back to Ireland.

No.

But following this past two weeks, I have never been more certain.

I genuinely cannot believe we are still allowing public protests for people inexplicably supporting this absolute pond life organisation & all the civilians applauding them. Sickening.

I can and will 'both sides' this. Israel has the whip hand, and as Jews we should better than anyone what it is to live under that - with power comes responsibility. That they have abused utterly. To have attacked Gaza as they have for a month would have been enough if they wanted revenge, to attack it for a week would have been enough.

No one is expecting them to have done nothing after the horror that was 7 October, but I believe there is a way to respond that is proportionate against a community that has nothing like the same capacity to defend itself as Israel does against large scale attack. I wish to God it wasn't so, I'd love to believe what Israel has done is not as bad as everyone's saying, but my eyes and all the evidence tell me otherwise. I'm not surprised many Palestinians loathe Israel now, which doesn't mean I excuse the behaviour of those who celebrate death. But Netanyahu is chomping at the bit to end the ceasefire (another reason I am hesitant to accept the IDF's evidence) and has ensured the hatred will burn furiously for another generation, to the detriment of Israel and Jews everywhere.

I dont want to reply specifically to the individual who said 'I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm just anti-Zionist' because I don't want to single out one person, but to anyone who think that way:

I've really stopped accepting this sleight of hand of 'I'm not antisemtic, I'm just anti-Zionist'. To be anti-Zionist means you don't think the state of Israel should exist, that Jews should have no homeland on the land that their entire religion is centred around (the central prayer, the refrain on holy days - all of it is about being in Israel) and worse still, you think Jews have no right to the land they have occupied for millennia, simply because a large number of them were driven out time and time again (by antisemites) creating a diaspora, where they have faced a genocide every century (and the hands of more antisemites), the last being the Holocaust where a third of their global population were exterminated and countless communities across Europe completely destroyed - ever heard of Greek Jews for example? No, because they were practically all murdered.

But you think, that because the majority of Jews were driven out, that they as a people no longer have a right to be on the land they come from, AND HAVE ALWAYS HAD A PRESENCE IN and that smugly doesn't make you a massive racist.

Where would you like all the Jews to go? Because it's not worked well for them in the diaspora (see aforementioned numerous genocides and 6 million dead) and you don't think they have right to be where they come from so, please, where should they go? Antarctica? Is that good enough?

If you're anti-Zionist, you're anti a two-state solution. By my book, that makes you anti-peace and a massive racist.