Hamas and Gaza celebrates

[LetThereBeLove]

Hillel Nueur, International human rights lawyer, writer, Executive Director of United Nations Watch writes: 'Never before in history has a side claimed that they suffered a genocide and at the same time that they won the war they had started.'

If you read only a handful of messages on social media today and watch the news, people in Gaza are celebrating and Hamas state they will continue (their barbarity) until Israel is eradicated. I won't repost these as anyone can find them easily.

I've read back I don't think I have. Your post doesn't offer any explanation as to what point I missed.

The PLO with the express interest of destroying Israel, was created before Israel was even in the West Bank or Gaza BTW.
Anti-semitism long precedes this.

Why shouldn't they be judged.
Judge them all you want that's your prerogative that wasn't the point I was making.

You've judged the actions of Israel government
Yes

and Israelis
No I haven't

The 7th October was not the evil deeds of a few bad individuals, it took a collective endeavour by thousands of ordinary people... in the hatred of Jews.
Don't agree. Don't equate innocent civilians and children with Hamas but I guess that makes it easier for people to condone their deaths, displacement, maiming and starvation.

PP isn’t wrong though, October 7th wasn’t just about a few bad individuals.
Over 6,000 fighters entered Israel that day, around 2,000 of them allegedly civilians.
And then the people who celebrated in the street of Gaza as the bodies of the Israeli victims were being paraded around.

That's one of the things I find so disturbing and worrying.
There were no shouts of yay, we are free. It was celebrations, including phone calls bragging, of killing Jews.

It was celebrations
What's wrong with that?

Including phone calls bragging, of killing Jews.
Where are you getting this information?

There were no shouts of yay, we are free
Why would they shout that? They're not free they're are still under an illegal occupation

@Dulra It's this recording I think:

https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1716882025502945465

Your reply it to me, so let's be clear I haven't condoned the deaths and displacement of any Palestinians.

Thousands of Palestinians celebrated in the streets of Gaza when the dead bodies of Israeli civilians were paraded. They held hostages in their homes, and we're and still complicit in their inhumane captivity.

That's not the behaviour of innocent civilians.

I'm not on X anything in msm about it?

Thanks Art.
There were many more.

The one sided blindness of some people in this is quite extraordinary.

And personally Dulra, I don't think the slaughter of innocent festival goers is something worthy of celebration. So yes, there is something wrong with that.

It was celebrations
What's wrong with that?

What’s wrong with celebrating bodies of Israeli civilians being paraded around? Really?

I have no idea what number celebrated the Hamas attacks and I do not condone that but I haven't seen evidence to suggest it was thousands. Those that harboured hostages are clearly complicit but again we don't know how many were involved in this. I wouldn't include all israelis when talking about those that attempted to block aid getting in to Gaza, held parties when the IDF were bombing Gaza and took boat tours to witness the carnage. There has been questionable behaviour on both sides. In the middle of all of that there are innocent civilians. Your original wording implied that the majority were complicit.

They are not the celebrations I was talking about! I'm talking about the celebrations of the ceasefire which is what started this thread.

To add if they are the celebrations @SpunkyCritic was referring to we seem to be at cross purposes here and that is separate to what the thread is about.

But the pp you replied to was a response to my post. I was talking about people celebrating atrocities and I think so was the person who responded to my post.

Yes, it was clear by your original reply that you had misunderstood which "celebrations" the PP was referencing.

Well then I'm getting confused. The thread is about the celebrations of the ceasefire so that is what I was referring to. I think conflating the two is getting confusing because they are two very different things.

I've also seen a tweet from a Palestinian journalists that's doing the rounds on X. She doesn't personally sound intent on adhering to a ceasefire. But I appreciate she doesn't speak for all Gazans.

https://x.com/BayanPalestine/status/1879586510745539009

I wrote "There were no shouts of yay, we are free. It was celebrations, including phone calls bragging, of killing Jews" in response to the post by @inamarina@inamarina
saying similar.
Pretty clear to me.

Yes I can see that now but as the thread was about ceasefire celebrations conflating the two confused me

Are you not 'blaming the victims' by pretty much saying Israel has no choice but to remove basic human rights from Palestinians? You talk about consequences to actions but refuse to see that Israels actions also have consequences.

Some Palestinians have behaved badly. Some Israelis have behaved badly. If everybody keeps behaving badly then nothing changes. Israel thought that by locking people in Gaza, by keep people under aparheid and occupation they were keeping Israel safe. Oct 7 proved that that is not the case. The inhumane measures Israel have had in place don't keep Palestinians safe and they don't keep Israelis safe. They do nothing but increase hatred and suffering all around.

If nothing changes nothing changes. Israel and the OPT are the perfect example of this.

I applaud you for at least being open about the fact that you don't feel like some people are entitled to basic human rights and that you feel they need to earn basic protections. And for being open about the fact that you don't feel International laws should apply to Israel. We are on very different planes clearly and won't ever agree on this. There is nothing else to say really is there.

Until such a time, people planning murder should expect to be treated like attempted murderers.

I do think that you need to ask yourself if racism or perhaps Islamaphobia is clouding your view because you seem to think that all Palestinians are planning murder and that is why you are OK with all Palestinians not having basic protections.

Correct. The conflict started a long time ago.

It’s not at all that “some people don’t deserve rights” and that’s not what I said. Nor is Israel above international law.
Let’s scale this down to individuals to make it easier to understand. You do not have to actually murder someone to be guilty of a crime. The police can and do act before the crime takes place, when the would-be-murderer is eg planning the route, hiring the chainsaw or practising disposing of a corpse. That is already a crime and grounds for arrest.
On a larger scale, Palestinian elected (or not) representative and their allies have consistently said they are planning a genocide. They want to kill all the Jews and replace the Jewish state with another Arab state. They try every chance they get. They may not have achieved it yet, but that does not mean they haven’t done anything wrong. Just like hiring a chainsaw as a would-be murderer is already enough reason for the police to intervene, planning, resourcing and training for an act of war is also grounds for defensive action. It’s not reasonable to expect the Israelis to sit on their hands and wait for Palestine and co to achieve their genocidal goals. By then it’s too late so have to take action before.

What do you want to happen? How do you imagine giving greater sovereignty to a genocidal terrorist organisation will end? There is a tiny chance that the Palestinian political minority could wrestle power from the political elite and accept independence for peace. Far more likely, the terrorists behead them, stay in power and use their new found wealth, connections and weapons to wage war until they win.

The whole thing is scary. Israel is having to release some incredibly violent and dangerous terrorists to have the hostages freed. And the latest celebrations show hamasniks have learned nothing.

I just hope as many hostages as possible are still alive. My heart breaks for the Bibas family and the female observers who appear to have been brutally raped in particular.