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Conflict in the Middle East

Hamas don’t want peace

588 replies

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 06/11/2024 10:19

A two day ceasefire was offered to them in return for four hostages but they declined. Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, said Hamas “once again refused to release even a limited number of hostages to secure a ceasefire and relief for the people of Gaza”.
Isreal has now offered a million dollars for each hostage and safe passage out of Gaza for their captors. Hamas have yet to respond.

OP posts:
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Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 17:43

JaneJeffer · 08/11/2024 17:41

@Feelingathomenow I would love to tell you what I posted but obviously I'm not allowed to. Posters can only use one name per thread though so it obviously was nothing like that.

Ah I’m sure I’ll find out. Whatever it was it was obviously incorrect/or breached talk guidelines - Shame!

Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 17:49

Scirocco · 08/11/2024 17:42

Generally speaking, international law provides the framework and limits for how countries can exercise that right to self-defence.

What's happening in Palestine and Lebanon doesn't really fit within that framework and those limits.

Vengeance is not the same as justice. Genocidal actions, war crimes and human rights abuses are not the same as self-defence.

Yes, although not a full member of NATO you could probably look to Article 51 for guidance on what is generally accepted - the right to self defence by a country.

GhostCicada · 08/11/2024 17:56

Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 17:13

No that is not what I am asking. It’s what you want the question to be. I am asking do you believe that the Jewish people have a right to their homeland? And do you believe that, like any other country they have a right to defend their homeland if an enemy comes into its homeland and commits acts of mass murder, torture and rape then kidnaps some citizens

Have you thought their actions might be necessary for its existence because so many people in the Middle East

This is what you asked. Their actions are apartheid. You were asking me if I had thought whether apartheid is necessary.

Scirocco · 08/11/2024 17:59

@Feelingathomenow Perhaps then, if I've misunderstood, you could explain to me. People have seen the evidence of horrific things happening in Palestine and Lebanon. There is video footage, eyewitness accounts, statements and social media videos from the soldiers on the ground all evidencing seriously concerning acts which really do look to be war crimes. Internationally respected scholars of genocide have expressed that this looks like a genocide. Internationally respected legal experts have expressed concerns that acts look to be war crimes. You previously described people as "demonising Israel" when they were saying these things are wrong. Do you consider it wrong for any group of people to be subjected to these things - if so, how does that match up with the objections to people condemning those actions? How do you think people should object to those actions?

Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 17:59

GhostCicada · 08/11/2024 17:56

Have you thought their actions might be necessary for its existence because so many people in the Middle East

This is what you asked. Their actions are apartheid. You were asking me if I had thought whether apartheid is necessary.

No it still isn’t what I was asking. No matter how many times you keep writing it, it still won’t be what I was asking.

Scirocco · 08/11/2024 18:00

Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 17:49

Yes, although not a full member of NATO you could probably look to Article 51 for guidance on what is generally accepted - the right to self defence by a country.

Self-defence doesn't include what is happening in Palestine and Lebanon now.

Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 18:02

Right anyway, I’m off out now for the weekend so you can enjoy your echo chamber once again. Would love to know who posts in a similar style to me though- probably quite an intelligent and interesting person.

Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 18:03

Scirocco · 08/11/2024 18:00

Self-defence doesn't include what is happening in Palestine and Lebanon now.

Oh I think it is.

Scirocco · 08/11/2024 18:05

Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 18:03

Oh I think it is.

Genocidal acts, war crimes and human rights abuses are a bit frowned upon. Are you honestly saying that you look at what's happening to innocent people in these places and think "yeah, that's fine"? Would you think it was fine for these things to be done to your home country?

Dulra · 08/11/2024 18:06

Confused how one of the main posters on this thread in the past week suggests it is an echo chamber. Yes an echo chamber mainly filled with your comments @Feelingathomenow

JaneJeffer · 08/11/2024 18:07

Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 18:02

Right anyway, I’m off out now for the weekend so you can enjoy your echo chamber once again. Would love to know who posts in a similar style to me though- probably quite an intelligent and interesting person.

Again not what I said but nice try

gloriagloria · 08/11/2024 18:53

Scirocco · 08/11/2024 17:59

@Feelingathomenow Perhaps then, if I've misunderstood, you could explain to me. People have seen the evidence of horrific things happening in Palestine and Lebanon. There is video footage, eyewitness accounts, statements and social media videos from the soldiers on the ground all evidencing seriously concerning acts which really do look to be war crimes. Internationally respected scholars of genocide have expressed that this looks like a genocide. Internationally respected legal experts have expressed concerns that acts look to be war crimes. You previously described people as "demonising Israel" when they were saying these things are wrong. Do you consider it wrong for any group of people to be subjected to these things - if so, how does that match up with the objections to people condemning those actions? How do you think people should object to those actions?

And if Israel really think we are being misled by what we're seeing, why not let independent journalists in to Gaza to report on the truth (and make a real effort not to kill them)?

Daftasabroom · 08/11/2024 20:55

Sheri99 · 08/11/2024 16:11

What is with the word "oppressed". Throughout history tribes with long standing opposing ideology have warred back and forth. It isn't oppressed it is competition for land, resources, ideological meaning, religious meaning.

EVEN within PALESTINE there is infighting between those who want a more hardline religious (think Hamas/Hezbolla, Jihadist) Palestinian State and those who want a more secular, democratic state!

It isn't as SIMPLE as Israel "oppressing" and to simply put the ENTIRE issue as "Israel's" fault or that Israel is oppressing others is just showing one's ignorance.

ANYTIME you have a more advanced, less religious based (more secular than religious based government), one that is more democratic, can keep their people out of poverty due to ingenuity, THAT country will dominate.

Survival of the fittest if you will. And the fittest - those highly developed countries have the ability to influence BECAUSE they can maintain an economy and have sophisticated diplomacy.

No, it may not be "fair" but life is not ever going to be "fair" and survival depends on being the strongest, and then sharing the strength.

This is why the United States, GB, Germany, Japan, Austrailia, are where refugees flock. But in doing that, refugees need to leave their religious fights at the immigration office and accept national secularism.

I'm not sure I've read such openly fascist dogma on a mainstream forum before.

I'm truly horrified. You are justifying the slaughter of tens of thousands of women and children because they are not advanced enough, because they are not fit enough, because they are not strong enough.

It's just competition? You state it's not fair. You state it's a competition for land, resources, ideological meaning, religious meaning so somehow doesn't count as oppression?

Kakeandkake · 08/11/2024 21:00

@Daftasabroom that poster thinks Trump is the best thing since sliced bread so the fascism is expected.

Daftasabroom · 08/11/2024 21:10

Feelingathomenow · 08/11/2024 17:05

Lol, I say they are stopping the spread of tyranny (or Hitler Nazism) into other countries. You say they were stopping German expansionism. Yet I’m the one who needs a history lesson🤦‍♀️. Largely they same thing, except I accurately also included the ideology and associated atrocities that went with the German expansionism that most stood against.

I accurately also included the ideology and associated atrocities that went with the German expansionism that most stood against.

No, this is simply untrue. It's pretty well recognised that the allies actually suppressed evidence of atrocities until pretty late in the war.

Auvergne63 · 09/11/2024 09:00

Sheri99 · 08/11/2024 15:31

Israel is not "bombing the - out of them". Palestinians are collateral damage due to Hamas' refusal to use rules of engagement one of which means: "Do not HIDE behind civilian populations". Look at facts not emotional propaganda. Hamas and the likes, use not just Palestinians but also emotion filled sympathetic people, such as yourself, as a means to create emotion thereby furthering their jihadist cause.

Please provide facts to support your views that the Israeli government/idf are not bombing the shit out of Palestinians.
I will wait.

Auvergne63 · 09/11/2024 09:10

ANYTIME you have a more advanced, less religious based (more secular than religious based government), one that is more democratic, can keep their people out of poverty due to ingenuity, THAT country will dominate.
Survival of the fittest if you will. And the fittest - those highly developed countries have the ability to influence BECAUSE they can maintain an economy and have sophisticated diplomacy.
White supremacist theory here. Absolutely repulsive.

Feelingathomenow · 10/11/2024 09:16

Daftasabroom · 08/11/2024 21:10

I accurately also included the ideology and associated atrocities that went with the German expansionism that most stood against.

No, this is simply untrue. It's pretty well recognised that the allies actually suppressed evidence of atrocities until pretty late in the war.

If you did even a cursory amount of research you would see the most popular scholastic view now is that people were aware of Many of The Nazi parties atrocities during the war, eg Van der Baums analysis of Dutch peoples diaries, eg n the BBC were reporting on them. So no you are wrong/outdated. Of course further atrocities came to light after the war and the allies did try and hide some in exchange for information eg the Japanese Unit 731. But people were certainly aware of atrocities esp against the Jews ) why do you think people were hiding /rescuing Jews - at great risk to themselves.. The question I have, is why you would try and deny such knowledge of the treatment of Jews? Are you trying to deny it took place or that people weren’t complicit with it? Trying to claim ignorance?

Daftasabroom · 10/11/2024 09:44

Feelingathomenow · 10/11/2024 09:16

If you did even a cursory amount of research you would see the most popular scholastic view now is that people were aware of Many of The Nazi parties atrocities during the war, eg Van der Baums analysis of Dutch peoples diaries, eg n the BBC were reporting on them. So no you are wrong/outdated. Of course further atrocities came to light after the war and the allies did try and hide some in exchange for information eg the Japanese Unit 731. But people were certainly aware of atrocities esp against the Jews ) why do you think people were hiding /rescuing Jews - at great risk to themselves.. The question I have, is why you would try and deny such knowledge of the treatment of Jews? Are you trying to deny it took place or that people weren’t complicit with it? Trying to claim ignorance?

Sure, it's completely true that Nazi atrocities were increasingly clear to those living on mainland Europe throughout the course of the war, as per my post. But that was nothing to do with you original post.

Your post clearly claimed that the allies war effort was to prevent the Nazi atrocities. This is untrue.

Feelingathomenow · 10/11/2024 09:54

Daftasabroom · 10/11/2024 09:44

Sure, it's completely true that Nazi atrocities were increasingly clear to those living on mainland Europe throughout the course of the war, as per my post. But that was nothing to do with you original post.

Your post clearly claimed that the allies war effort was to prevent the Nazi atrocities. This is untrue.

would you like any more straws to grasp at and twist?

I was responding to your post that the allies suppressed knowledge of Nazi atrocities.

Bit thank you for being so responsive to any comments made. You’re dedicating a lot of time to this.

Daftasabroom · 10/11/2024 14:24

@Feelingathomenow The question I have, is why you would try and deny such knowledge of the treatment of Jews? Are you trying to deny it took place or that people weren’t complicit with it? Trying to claim ignorance?

Do you mean me personally? Or does the you = allies during WW2?

Feelingathomenow · 10/11/2024 16:03

Daftasabroom · 10/11/2024 14:24

@Feelingathomenow The question I have, is why you would try and deny such knowledge of the treatment of Jews? Are you trying to deny it took place or that people weren’t complicit with it? Trying to claim ignorance?

Do you mean me personally? Or does the you = allies during WW2?

Edited

You personally, why are u you oi trying to deny people knew at least some of the atrocities carried out by the Jews during WW2

Daftasabroom · 10/11/2024 16:28

Feelingathomenow · 10/11/2024 16:03

You personally, why are u you oi trying to deny people knew at least some of the atrocities carried out by the Jews during WW2

You might like to check your post means what you want it to mean.

Feelingathomenow · 10/11/2024 16:57

Daftasabroom · 10/11/2024 16:28

You might like to check your post means what you want it to mean.

It means exactly what I want it to mean. Now let’s draw a line underneath it. People knew atrocities were being carried out by the Nazis during WW2 at the time of the War. For some reason you want to deny that. I don’t see there’s any value in discussing this anymore. Neither is there any value in your repeatedly failed attempts to discredit me.

Daftasabroom · 10/11/2024 17:01

@Feelingathomenow you posted:

people knew at least some of the atrocities carried out by the Jews during WW2

Are you sure you're claiming Jews were responsible for WW2 atrocities?