Hamas don’t want peace

[Icanthinkformyselfthanks]

A two day ceasefire was offered to them in return for four hostages but they declined. Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, said Hamas “once again refused to release even a limited number of hostages to secure a ceasefire and relief for the people of Gaza”.
Isreal has now offered a million dollars for each hostage and safe passage out of Gaza for their captors. Hamas have yet to respond.

Oh thank you for pointing out a typo that everyone knew exactly what was meant. Omg you’re so superior. Watch you don’t get any splinters whilst you’re scraping the bottom of that barrel lol

Weirdo.

Yes I would say your comment is commensurate with the level of erudition you have displayed thus far on this thread.

Do you have anything interesting to say on the subject of the situation in the Middle East or are you using the war as an excuse to name call people with different view points to you? Do you actually care about the matters being discussed or are they simply a medium through which you to flex your ego?

Have you got anything interesting or pertinent to say in answer to the OP ‘s question? I’m here to discuss serious matters not hurl insults at others.

Pot kettle

Ah another enlightening comment linked to the situation in the Middle East.

Do you want to discuss the OPs post or just name call me?

Because your posts have made so much sense @Feelingathomenow e.g. "trying to deny people knew at least some of the atrocities carried out by the Jews during WW2"

Ah if you read the above you will see this unfortunate error has already been pointed out and dealt with. Obviously anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise it was supposed to read “atrocities carried on by the Nazis” but happy to clarify it again for you. I suppose, at least I’m not wasting my time negotiating for the release of sausages

This is getting proper weird. We just had toad in the hole for dinner.

@Feelingathomenow back to the OP.

I doubt very much that Hamas wanted, or were expecting peace. But I doubt they were expecting Israel to react with the utter disregard for life that they have done.

I fear that the Israeli response will be used to justify 7/10. I fear that the support for Israel from some high profile countries will encourage terrorist attacks against those countries.

I also fear that the huge shift in public support, from disinterest or neutrality or even generally pro Israel, to a pretty overwhelming pro Palestinian stance will also result in a very scary antisemitic shift.

Israeli genocide in Gaza and the blatant ethnic cleansing and colonisation of the West Bank have moved public feeling firmly against continued military support for Israel from western governments.

Israel is going to be ever more vulnerable and isolated.

While I doubt this is what Hamas expected I fear it's what will result.

Oh I think all those things that you lost are exactly what Hamas both wanted and expected. They want people to hate Israel and yo stir up Antisemitism. They have undoubtedly used and continue to use social media and the mainstream media - both are full of useful idiots who will buy a narrative and repeat mantras unquestioningly.

Hamas don’t care how many people die in their quest to literate Israel. They can’t do this purely through military might so they employ manipulative propaganda through media and social media. They rely on people to follow narratives which people do time and time again. They are recruiting unwitting terrorist supporters in their propaganda wars. People so desperate to fit in they don’t even question the narrative they are supporting. you can’t really blame them social media has been cultivating a culture of unthinking compliance for years. It’s not surprising when that culture is used by terrorists.

it doesn’t take too much thought to see what is happening. You would hope people would not be so unwittingly drawn into supporting terrorists in the proper war, but….

Hamas continue to reject and type of diplomacy- they are more than willing to continue to see babies die, whilst people in the West continue their fight for them.

Sorry - for the typos-it is obvious to anyone what is meant but given prior experience obviously mean

your list, not lost

obliterate not literate Israel

propoganda war, not proper war

Fight for them means fight on behalf of the terrorists.

There was a great experiment that showed why people followed the Nazis involving men in lab coats and electric shocks. It showed that people will often act against their better judgement if someone in “authority” they trust tells them something is “right” and ok. They basically let go of any sense of individual responsibility for causing harm. Now we just have celebrities and people in the algorithm social media echo chambers telling people what is “right”. People blindly follow as they don’t need to think or take personal responsibility.

I guess then the only thing we need to do is distinguish who is wearing the white coat getting others to inflict harm for them without question.

Is this a serious question ! Israel
want to pause the genocide for two days . What’s the point of that . Is that going to bring back the hundred thousand plus that have been slaughtered. I’m actually shocked that you can’t see the problem with that . In previous hostage exchanges Israel captured the Palestinian hostages they released as soon as they had the Israeli hostages back. The Palestinians are just waiting to die and people like you seem to think they deseeve to die otherwise you wouldn’t post something so ridiculous And would Be pushing for a permanent ceasefire ! You seem to think an extra two
says for them to live is something they should
be extremely grateful to Israel for !!!!!

@Nads0622 , it’s not a question; it’s a statement. Why do you think Hamas perpetrated 07/10? What do you think they hoped to accomplish? This is not about the people who live in Gaza their dreadful situation is at Hamas’s hands.

They have undoubtedly used and continue to use social media and the mainstream media - both are full of useful idiots who will buy a narrative and repeat mantras unquestioningly.

If only there was a simple answer to this. Like maybe Israel could let in International media and independent observers like everybody has been asking them to do for the past year plus. If the whole world could see what Israel are doing in Gaza and see for themselves that the 'narrative' is completely different to the one they have been seeing on social media then surely the Palestinian people would lose the support of the 'useful idiots' as you put it.

Instead Israel have banned foreign journalists, blow up Palestinian journalists, is banning International NGOs, have killed more aid workers than in any other crisis and are trying to shut down the largest aid agency that operates there.

The people living in Gaza were in a dire situation long before Hamas ( boosted by Netanyahu) existed . The people in the West Bank where there is no Hamas are being killed by the IDF. Hamas were allowed to fill a vacuum that was created by the west in allowing the mistreatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis . Hamas don’t exist when nearly a million Palestinians were thrown out of their homes , and tens of thousands slaughtered. In the West Bank last year before October 7th 35 children were killed by the IDF the youngest of whom was two which Israel called a mistake. It’s not Hamas that allow the settlers to throw Palestinians out of there homes and act with impunity . Stop pretending it’s about Hamas ! You know just as well as I do it’s not but it’s the line that you’ll continually use to justify genocide to yourself !

@Nads0622 , I am not talking about anything other than the indisputable fact that Hamas don’t want peace.

Why do you think Hamas perpetrated 07/10? What do you think they hoped to accomplish?

It's my opinion that, after 15 years of living under siege, with daily raids by the Israelis, that they expected a brutal and extremely disproportionate response, which is exactly what they got. I am of the opinion that they wanted the world to realise just how brutal the Israelis actually are.

This is not about the people who live in Gaza their dreadful situation is at Hamas’s hands.

And, let's not forget, in the hands of the Israelis. They could, if they chose, at least try to abide by the international norms and laws of war, instead of deliberately targetting civilians. The majority of the dead have been women and children.

If Russia bombed a vaccination centre and killed loads of mothers and children, you wouldn't be blaming Zelensky.

They have undoubtedly used and continue to use social media and the mainstream media - both are full of useful idiots who will buy a narrative and repeat mantras unquestioningly.
They rely on people to follow narratives which people do time and time again. They are recruiting unwitting terrorist supporters in their propaganda wars. People so desperate to fit in they don’t even question the narrative they are supporting. you can’t really blame them social media has been cultivating a culture of unthinking compliance for years. It’s not surprising when that culture is used by terrorists.

So it is all down to Hamas propaganda and social media and mainstream media following their narrative oh and useful idiots believing it because they want to fit in? whatever that means.
Amazing the power they wield over the world view. They have sucked us all in, the EU, individual Nation States, the UN, the ICJ, the ICC, they even have medical professionals coming out of Gaza making stuff up? Are you also suggesting Israel's side is the one to be believed? Pull the other one it has bells on

No one is saying people aren’t dying in Gaza. So no pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes over that. It is about whether the war is justified and whether Hamas orchestrated the attacks of Oct 7 knowing Israel would respond and that they could use that response by coupling it with the narrative spun on social media, knowing that certain groups would lap up the propaganda. The result is a massive increase in anti semitism- that was the aim of the Oct 7 attacks and subsequent social media flooding.
no one here has been able to state a viable alternative response by Israel.

I don't think initially many objected to Israel responding and looking to secure the safe release of hostages but it is the how and the disproportionality of that response that people have an issue with. The limiting of humanitarian aid, the indiscriminate bombings, the no independent overserves or journalists, the huge civilian death toll, the over 16,000 kids killed. The complete destruction of Gaza, the displacement of 90% of the population, the targeting and killing of humanitarian aid workers and journalists and so on. The concern that genocide is happening. The genocidal and dehumanising statements being a feature of the current government in Israel. That is where people have an issue

None of that is a spun narrative on social media.

no one here has been able to state a viable alternative response by Israel.
That is simply not true there has been many alternatives suggested. I honestly think anyone who thinks Israel had no other option are deep in Israeli propaganda tbh

The suggestions like negotiate just don’t work as Hamas refuse to negotiate and actually negotiating with Terrorists creates a bad precedent. Anyone familiar with the repeated attacks, genocide and exile of Jews over millennia will be able to understand why they reacted so decisively. Maybe if Hamas didn’t hide behind civilians it might have been better.

And there were plenty of people who were criticising Israel from the outset so don’t try and change that history.

So what is your suggestion? What should Israel have done?

Does it really matter what anyone thinks Israel should have done? Are you suddenly going to go shit yeah you're right declaring that you are going to eliminate everything and create Nakba 2023 is wrong, they should deffo have done it your way! If you don't think that their plan to elimate everything was wrong then you are on a whole different plane to those who think there is never an excuse to eliminate everything when you are talking about people and their lives. It's different value systems that are never going to see eye to eye.

And there were plenty of people who were criticising Israel from the outset so don’t try and change that history.
I am not trying to change history, of course there were people criticising Israel from the outset I am talking about the international community as a whole not individuals.

The suggestions like negotiate just don’t work as Hamas refuse to negotiate and actually negotiating with Terrorists creates a bad precedent.
It was through negotiation that some of the hostages were released though. Many nations have had to negotiate with terrorists in the past, that precedent has been set time and again.

So what is your suggestion? What should Israel have done?
Stop breaking international law would be a good starting point. Allow independent journalists in, properly facilitate the distribution of humanitarian aid, facilitate proper access to medical help, stop bombing refugee camps, stop displacing over a million of people over and over. Actually try and limit civilian casualties.

Don't know where to begin... So, bin Laden orchestrated 9/11 to remove Saddam, right? He must have known how the US would respond. And whoever killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand is responsible for WWI and the application of chemical weapons...That's the logic you apply to 7Oct23. I disagree.

Hamas bears responsibility for their acts. Israel is a sovereign country that bears full responsibility for their actions. Please, don't infantilise Israel saying Hamas is responsible for the deaths of Palestinian civilians. Their wellbeing is actually Israel's responisibility as an occupier.

As for negotiating with terrorists, this is what brought peace to NI. If the US refused to deal with terrorists, the state of Israel would not exist either.

negotiating with terrorists sets a bad precedent

Tell that to Northern Ireland @Feelingathomenow