How many more will Israel kill?

[Whatsinanamehey]

Nearly a 100 people reportedly killed in the north of Gaza today from a strike in Beit Lahia. Many of the dead are small children with some of the footage the most shocking I have seen. Dead children still trapped under the rubble and countless more injured. How can they continue to kill like this? How can this still be justified as self defence? How can such callous disregard for human life be condoned?

Yes - this is a very fair and measured summary.

It is all so tragic - what has happened and what is still happening .

No. Around 100 are unaccounted for and many of them are probably dead.

@Martymcfly24 I want what I have always wanted - a two state solution.
Rape is not an act of resistance.

The Israeli parliament voted recently to reject a two state solution so any return of hostages is not going to give one.

I am unsure if the rape comment is directed towards me but rape is not an act of resistance I agree, when either side use it.

The maps are wrong.

Don't be naive. It will never end. The irony is Israel is doing exactly what was done to them. Appalling.

Don't be naive.

Israel is doing exactly what was done to them? So to be clear, the industrial explosion and slaughter of appropriately 6 million Jews is the same as the killing in war of appropriately 30 to 40 thousand Palestinians? You really think that's true?

It's only true if a Jewish life is only worth a tiny portion of a Palestinian life.

You're standing by that?

I despair.

40,000 so far. Israel have no intention of stopping.

A potential death in the future that may or may not come to pass is not the same as the loss of an actual human life. Surely you can see that?

I despair too but not for the same reasons as you.
The horrors of the Holocaust, where nearly 12 millions were murdered, started on a "small scale". It is an horrible fact but a fact it is. Because no nations objected to it, this was ramped up. The world did nothing to stop it. The world is also doing nothing to stop what is happening in Gaza.
Your minimizing of the number of Palestinian deaths is also troubling.
No life is worth more than an another although it appears that the Israeli government does not believe this.
This was written by Gabor Mate, well before the events of the last year, but sadly still relevant.
Israel: The Beautiful Dream has become a Nightmare by Dr. Gabor Maté

Potential death? You do know that this number does not take into account the people under the rubble? You do know that starvation/illnesses kill slowly? That people can die from their injuries months later?
Why are you trying to minimize Palestinian deaths?

Oh I can completely see that

Israeli has now murdered more children in a single year than in a year any recent conflict.

The fact alone that this does not horrify posters here as well as world leaders means that those potential deaths WILL be realised.

Sometimes I don't even know why I bother responding. Again, you're setting me up with straw man arguments that I have to shut down first before we can actually discuss anything. But here we go-
The world, at least The Allies, fought a war that cost thousands of lives to end the nazi regime. They didn't 'do nothing'. They fought a war against an evil regime.
What do you want the world to 'do' to stop the slaughter in Gaza? Start a war on Israel? Can't you see how crazy that is?
I have never, ever minimised Palestinian death. All human life in valuable. Each Palestinian civilian life is worth as much as each Israeli life, each British life, each Nigerian life.
However, Israel has declared war on Hamas. So yes, to the IDF each Hamas life is worth less than Israeli life. It's war. That's how it works. Each tries to kill the other. Each dehumanized the other to a certain extent because otherwise soldiers couldn't do what they do. It's awful, but each nation that makes war on another does it- NOT JUST THE ISRAELIS.
What are those hostage lives worth to Hamas?

Calling an equivalence between the Holocaust and the current war in Gaza is absolutely appalling. I can't believe its still happening. That's what I'm trying to correct.

Whats happening in Gaza is awful enough without calling false equivalence.

Please don't bother responding unless you are specifically rebutting my points.

100% agree.

Seriously. Do you think there is a single poster on here who isn't horrified by every single death of a child? It's mumsnet ffs. We're a bunch of middle aged women with kids who've mostly never been directly involved in a war...

Do you imagine there's a set of pro Israeli mums sitting about gleefully celebrating every time a kid gets buried under the rubble or gets their legs blown off?

There isn't.

And do you have a way of seeing into the future that lets you know that another 5.9 million approx Palestinians are going to die? No. You don't.

Your posts make no sense.

I think they do.

And you don't have to be cheering on children's deaths to be excusing them on these threads which imo is pretty much the same thing for eg a

1. Hamas started it.

2 Hamas are using Palestinians as human shields so it's not the IDf's fault

3 it's anti semitic to call Israel out on anything at all.

4 babies were burned in ovens on October 7th

5 it's just a popular social media phase to support Palestine.

6 It is not a genocide because.there are still Palestinians left.

7 there was a ceasefire before October 7th

8 Just give the hostages back and it will all be over.

9 it's Palestinians own fault because they voted Hamas in.

The world, at least The Allies, fought a war that cost thousands of lives to end the nazi regime. They didn't 'do nothing'. They fought a war against an evil regime.
The Allies were aware of the camps. That's what i meant "by doing nothing".
What the Allies Knew - The Holocaust
What do you want the world to 'do' to stop the slaughter in Gaza? Start a war on Israel? Can't you see how crazy that is?
Nobody but you think that starting a war with Israel is the solution here. An embargo on the sale of armement and allowing aid in would be a start.
each nation that makes war on another does it-
There lies the problem. Gaza isn't a nation and has no means to defend itself. The IDF are shooting fish in a barrel. Don't they have the right to self defense?
What are those hostage lives worth to Hamas?
What are those hostage lives worth to Netanyahu?
What happening in Gaza is awful enough without calling false equivalence.
This is your opinion, nothing else.
Finally, I will answer to any poster any time I want. This is called freedom of speech.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

Sadly, there are indeed people who are not that concerned about Palestinian children or Muslim children, and whose responses include: celebration of successful military action with no interest in the dead or injured children; flat-out "nah, you're lying" (actually had that one myself about a child of a family friend who was scarred for life by an Israeli attack); "it's faked"; shrugging it off as "collateral damage"; blaming children's parents for not keeping them safe; "nah, it's Hamas's fault"; "yes it's very sad but that's life" and similar dismissive comments including direct comparisons with the deaths of animals and stating that a Palestinian child's life is not worth the same as an Israeli child or a 'Western' child. I've been told we (Muslims) love our children less than non-Muslims. Can you imagine telling people who have lost children that they didn't love them as much as other people would? Because that's just some of the cruelty that Muslims and Palestinians receive online from people who support the current Israeli military action.

This

Going to war is not 'doing nothing'.

Again, straw man. I don't think starting a war against Israel is sensible, I said the opposite. And I believe Starmer recently restricted some arms sales? And Israel is allowing aid in, although arguably not enough. But you're factually incorrect in what you're saying.

Gaza has no way to defend itself? Are you kidding me? They have no guns? No rocket launchers? No tunnels that could be used to shelter women and children? You know full well they have all these things. The truth is Hamas uses all their resources to protect its leadership and attack Israel, and none of its resources to protect its civilians.
It's true that the Palestinian civilians have no way to defend themselves. Civilians tend not to have arms. They're caught between Hamas ( their government who should be protecting them ) and the IDF who are protecting Israel. Do you think the responsibility lies only with Israel to protect Gazan civilians?

You say Gaza isn't a nation? If it isn't a nation it can't be suffering genocide. I'm surprised to hear you think this but OK.

Hostage lives worth to Netanyahu? Not enough. I believe he is most likely guilty of war crimes and history will look very unkindly on him. I think he also should take some responsibility for the security failures of 7 October.

It's not just my opinion that the Holocaust and the current war are not equivalent. It's an actual fact. How anyone can compare the 2 and come up with equivalence is beyond me.
Amongst many other points, millions of Jews were specifically targeted for deportation and murdered. Gazan civilians, whole families are not being forced onto a train at gunpoint then gassed to death or forced to work to death. Gazan civilians are caught between 2 opposed ideologies who care little about their lives. It's awful, but it's not the same.

Thanks, some of these sentiments expressed indeed sound absolutely awful, in particular blaming parents for the death of a child, and comparing Palestinian children to animals. I haven't seen any of that on here ( although I have on other forums sadly, so I know they're out there. )

However I do think there's a meaningful difference between-
Nah- it's Hamas' fault and-
The responsibility for these Palestinan children's death lies at least partly with Hamas. ( which would be my position )

What I absolutely cannot believe keeps getting trotted out on here is that the current war is the equivalent to the Holocaust.

There's posters on here saying this, and then in same post accusing me of minimizing Palestinian death. The cognitive dissonance is unbelievable.

It's not just my opinion that the Holocaust and the current war are not equivalent. It's an actual fact. How anyone can compare the 2 and come up with equivalence is beyond me.
Amongst many other points, millions of Jews were specifically targeted for deportation and murdered. Gazan civilians, whole families are not being forced onto a train at gunpoint then gassed to death or forced to work to death. Gazan civilians are caught between 2 opposed ideologies who care little about their lives. It's awful, but it's not the same

Agree totally.

@dairydebris I absolutely believe that the members of Hamas bear some responsibility for the subsequent atrocities - they must have been aware of what sort of reaction would come, and of the people making the decisions about whether to place any value on Palestinian lives (the Israeli government were never likely to opt for a measured response). For whatever reason, they chose for the slaughter to start at that point, knowing it was condemning Palestinians to death. But Israeli forces, the government and its supporters are also very much responsible for their decisions - they had options, better options, but chose this. They are responsible for their choices, and that is what so many people refuse to acknowledge or accept. They could have been better than this - shown respect for international law, prevented thousands of civilian deaths, reached a ceasefire agreement to bring hostages back home and start a peace process to put an end to this cycle of hatred and violence and to begin the healing for everyone. Instead, they have chosen to escalate the violence and terror, commit horrendous atrocities (that they didn't have to do - they chose to do!), and move further away from a peaceful resolution. What I encounter, repeatedly, is that people minimise and excuse behaviour from the IDF and theur supporters, while harshly condemning Palestinians for much less.