How many more will Israel kill?

[Whatsinanamehey]

Nearly a 100 people reportedly killed in the north of Gaza today from a strike in Beit Lahia. Many of the dead are small children with some of the footage the most shocking I have seen. Dead children still trapped under the rubble and countless more injured. How can they continue to kill like this? How can this still be justified as self defence? How can such callous disregard for human life be condoned?

I guess if I were to simplify a horribly long, complex, fraught conflict such as this, in my mind there is a hierarchy of baddies and it goes like this-

Hamas

Current Israeli government

Innocent civilians on both sides.

I think this in a nutshell is why I support Israel's right to wage war on Hamas. I think it's right and good to critique the conduct of the war, but I support their basic aim to get rid of Hamas.

Anytime I feel absolutely no hope I think about Rwanda. I believe in the absence of evil regimes normal people can sort this.

I bow out because all your posts do is to voice your opinion without providing any unbiased and verified facts to back it up. But before I do, let's clarify some points:
And I believe Starmer recently restricted some arms sales? And Israel is allowing aid in, although arguably not enough. But you're factually incorrect in what you're saying.
He banned 30 companies out of 300 ( google it). The UK is not the main provider of weapons as you well know it. The USA are.
Regarding aid, the Israeli government has allowed 536 lorries in 20 days in Northern Gaza, according to UNICEF) which is the number which go in on a daily basis. If I am factually incorrect, please provide evidence to support your views.
Gaza has no way to defend itself? Are you kidding me? They have no guns? No rocket launchers? No tunnels that could be used to shelter women and children? You know full well they have all these things. The truth is Hamas uses all their resources to protect its leadership and attack Israel, and none of its resources to protect its civilians.
It's true that the Palestinian civilians have no way to defend themselves. Civilians tend not to have arms. They're caught between Hamas ( their government who should be protecting them ) and the IDF who are protecting Israel. Do you think the responsibility lies only with Israel to protect Gazan civilians?
The IDF is vastly superior in term of weapons. A gun or a rocket is no match against the USA military might which supplies Israel.
Both Hamas and the IDF are two faces of the same coin, regarding the Palestinian civilians. The difference is that one is a terrorist organisation; the other the "most moral army in the world".
You say Gaza isn't a nation? If it isn't a nation it can't be suffering genocide. I'm surprised to hear you think this but OK.
I suggest you look up the definition of genocide. It appears that you do not understand it.
Hostage lives worth to Netanyahu? Not enough. I believe he is most likely guilty of war crimes and history will look very unkindly on him. I think he also should take some responsibility for the security failures of 7 October.
At least, we agree on something.
It's not just my opinion that the Holocaust and the current war are not equivalent. It's an actual fact. How anyone can compare the 2 and come up with equivalence is beyond me.
Amongst many other points, millions of Jews were specifically targeted for deportation and murdered. Gazan civilians, whole families are not being forced onto a train at gunpoint then gassed to death or forced to work to death.
Again provide facts ( saying it's a fact doesn't make it one) to back up your opinion.
What happened in Bosnia and Rwanda were genocides. Genocides are not defined by the methods used but by the intent.

You mean the Palestinian hostages held by Israel? Or do you mean all hostages?

I just saw a video of hundreds if not thousands of people trying to access bread in Gaza. There is no food. Many were crying and screaming. Little children and their mothers. Can you imagine the despair? I won't share it because it upset me, and it would upset the posters who care about human rights and what the people of Gaza are going through.

A fully designed situation, not a famine or a shortage. It's unforgiveable.

@dairydebris please check your history before you use it justify the genocide in Gaza and the ethnic cleansing in the West Bank.

The world, at least The Allies, fought a war that cost thousands of lives to end the nazi regime. They didn't 'do nothing'.

This is categorically untrue.

The British and French came to the aid of Poland after they were invaded by Germany. After the French surrender there were very significant French factions who actively supported the Nazis. The Nazis had signalled their intent well before the invasion of Poland and the European allies had done little or nothing to prevent it. Fascism was a mainstream political ideology across Europe, it wasn't just Hitler and Mussolini (who hated each other). If anything the Nazis were at best left alone, but to some extent enabled.

Stalin and the Soviets signed a non-aggression and trade pact with the Nazis that directly supported the war in western Europe and North Africa.

The Americans remained steadfastly neutral - or at least no direct action - until Pearl Harbor, and even then it was Hitler who declared war on the USA.

The European allies reaction to the Nazis was due to existential necessity not some kind moral crusade.

@dairydebris

You struggle to see the similarity?
GENOCIDE
That's the similarity.

Omg.
Again with the straw man!
I DO see similarities. Some of the rhetoric from Israeli right wing, for example.

I am objecting to the poster who said Israel are doing exactly what was done to them. I am objecting to drawing an equivalence between the Holocaust and the current conflict. They are NOT THE SAME!

To say they are the same is to trivialize the systematic murder of 6 million people.

6 million is not the same as 50k. Even 100k. It's not the same.

Language matters.

It's not about numbers. It's about trying to wipe out a population. That's what Israel seems to be attempting. I'm astounded at their awful cruelty. I really am.

Genocide isn't defined by figures though. Perhaps if you feel so strongly that it isn't equivalent you could say why without saying the numbers aren't enough.

Who is this poster?
To say they are the same is to trivialize the systematic murder of 6 million people.
I will say it again. Genocide isn't about numbers. By the way, 12 millions died in the Holocaust.
My great aunt was lucky to survive Auschwitz and the Death March. Whilst on the march, she realised she had forgotten the diary she had written ( in secret to bear witness) and went back to get it.
So no, I would never ever trivialize the Holocaust.

If cruelty goes unchecked, it escalates. We are witnessing this on a daily basis.

I know. It's the attempt to destroy in part or in whole a group of people. I know what genocide is. We can go back and forth on whether or not Gaza is suffering a genocide, I'm not debating that here.

It's the equating of the Holocaust with the war in Gaza that I cannot bear. Civilians are being bombed yes. I don't want to minimise the awfulness of that. But it is not the same as people being put on trains and shipped to their deaths. Israel is not putting thousands of people in concentration camps and starving them, forcing them to work, shaving their heads, stealing their possessions and then killing them on an industrial scale. Civilians are not being specifically targeted, they are caught in the crossfire.

I think I'll have to bow out now. Hope you have a good evening.

I think it's a shame if you bow out considering it doesn't sound like you are aware fully of the reports coming out of the region which would explain why PP are making an equivalence.

They are putting people in detention camps and starving and torturing them. There are videos of IDF soldiers stealing the possessions of killed or detained Gazan civilians. Strapping dead children's toys to their bulldozers. They are targeting civilians. They are digging holes and placing women and children in them before telling them they must leave or they will be dead in that hole. Have you read any of the reports of the trauma IDF soldiers are reporting from for example "running over hundreds of alive people with bulldozers"?

No, it's not industrialised in the same way as the Holocaust, but we have to remember it didn't start that way either.

This

And these things will continue, and escalate, for as long as the Israeli government and IDF can get away with it.

People still thinking that this can be stopped by the release of hostages clearly haven't been either listening to what Israeli politicians are saying, or watching what the IDF and 'settlers' are doing.

When someone shows you what they are, believe them.

For example...

For example...

For example...

Do people understand that Hamas started aim is to destroy Israel and the Jewish people?

What do people think would have happened if Hamas had been successful in an invasion of Israel on 7 October? They weren’t calling people to warn them…

not to mention how Hamas has sacrificed Palestinians to hide behind

there is no doubt there are very real awful things Netanyahu and conhave done

but it baffles me that people don’t acknowledge that Hamas EXPLICITLY states that its aim IS genocide of the Jewish people

These men, and others, are explicitly clear about where they stand and what they intend. Without external intervention, they will continue as long as it remains feasible for them to do so. So, if the voices calling for peace in Israel cannot stop them alone, the world should help by exerting pressure for a ceasefire and peace process.

Baffles me too.

Exactly! There is reams of evidence at this point from soldiers, politicians and settlers spelling out very clearly their intentions for Gaza. A settler even said "we need to kill them all" on live TV and it wasn't even the quote used in the headline, that's how normalised this genocide is.

This argument is made frequently here.

I suppose the imaginary destruction or genocide of a country/enclave and its people is not as pressing a concern as the real one that's happening now in Gaza.

Except it won’t.
Fascist leader wants Lebensraum. Classic.
The people, Israelis or Palestinians are almost irrelevant.

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