The testimony of the Yazidi woman rescued from Gaza

[HermioneWeasley]

I thought the atrocities of 7/10 were the worst thing I’d ever read about but her account of her treatment, particularly by ISIS, is beyond comprehension.

I only saw the headlines (I’m not usually one for content warnings but they were awful).

why is nobody talking about this? Why isn’t a board made up primarily of mothers talking about what she has described? Where is the condemnation?

@Martymcfly24 , I don’t believe support for a proscribed terrorist organisation is legal neither is expressing views which incite violence or hatred of others.

We've seen the difference in how aid gets distributed when men and women are in charge of it can you give examples of this?

In relation to Afghanistan, I think going back over a number of decades looking at what triggered which key event, and looking at for example the pattern of supply of arms and consequences, would be helpful.

Making it just male vs female is too narrow not to mention intrinsically sexist which is a backward step for women as well as men. I think having leaders who have a moral compass, competence, education, wisdom, humanity as a whole, as an individual and how they choose their team, it is this which would make a difference. And looking at when and why leaders fail. And who was controlling them or their opponents behind the scenes, or "indirectly". Whether they are male or female shouldn't be relevant, and is likely to be a smoke screen set up by indirect leaders.

If it is statistically predictable currently, how one or other might perform, then we should look at why and how we change that. We know from neuro science that there is not much inherently different between the male or female brain and instead it is all about conditioning.

As said upthread, the demonstrations are about wanting a fair solution for both Palestine and Israel, a two state solution, not about supporting terrorism. And I think you knew that.

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@hereova , there has been clear support during those demonstrations for terroists, there have been antisemitic sentiments expressed. I hope everyone would wish to see an end to that awful conflict, in that case I can’t quite comprehend why they don’t demonstrate for the release of the remaining hostages? Maybe Jewish children don’t count?

What you say here is not true and misleading.

Listen to anyone talking about this, the point is to end the suffering of both sides and find fair and peaceful solutions. It would be far more helpful for you to promote fair and peaceful solutions than to be divisive.

I rarely comment on any of these threads (I think both 'sides' are behaving despicably) but, now and again, I try to illustrate how today's atrocities are the continuation of millennia-old conflicts. I wish I could say culmination, but I don't believe it will end.

The Bible contains several accounts of Israelites doing exactly this, with the very same justification. You can even find earnest arguments that the Benjaminites, for instance, took Midianite girls as "wives" to ensure the Midianite line wasn't completely wiped out by the slaughter of their men, married women and children. Very kind of them.

Fundamentalist Islam follows 3,000-year-old laws. This is a problem. Many other traditions have moved on, while still venerating ancestors who enacted the same laws and exalting the outcomes of those acts. That's less of a problem, but it means these brutal principles still underpin the whole conflict.

It's just never fucking stopped 😡😭

Listen to anyone talking about this
I think that would be a very good idea. These people don't seem to be interested in fair & peaceful solutions though do they?
https://x.com/antisemitism/status/1842647718478467464?t=vCv9s9FfI_JSEnjwXe340w&s=19

https://x.com/antisemitism/status/1842902627501166979?t=3aUeuNG9WUVMEeL0SseBkw&s=19

https://x.com/antisemitism/status/1842841221901029780?t=lEjrZmCFCj0ak2AWrrn2eA&s=19

https://x.com/antisemitism/status/1842660395493826739?t=28u5LTOpb5pwiGVLgSf7YA&s=19

https://x.com/antisemitism/status/1842635709334614143?t=X20SS8t2iFBEcAtINVXmNg&s=19

@Auvergne63

"It also became apparent that this was the case during covid. Countries with a woman at the head did better."

Whether PM or President of a country was male or female is completely irrelevant in Covid mortality rates.

What was relevant was population densities and even more so obesity rates. Japan happened to have one of the lowest obesity rates and lowest mortality rates.

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n623

Antisemitism is not acceptable. I think that what I said was right though, that the vast majority of people want a fair and peaceful solution, and I would imagine that even those holding placards would support a two state solution. Zionists who are interviewed generally say they support a one state solution, do you think most Zionists support a one or two state solution? Incidentally one of the comments said that 90 percent of Jewish people consider themselves Zionists - I am not sure how that person could know that, a fair percentage of Jewish people I know (where I was brought up was 50 percent jewish and I have Jewish heritage) do not attend synagogue or Jewish events etc regularly, do they mean 90 percent of Orthodox Jewish? But basically bottom line,antisemitism is not acceptable, and partisan comments one way or the other are not helpful.

Antisemitism and other forms of racism are generally based on either ignorance or manipulation or both, and so to keep on educating while also promosting peaceful solutions would be good?

No you were pretty clear tha the marchers were all terribly peaceful & fair minded. You didn't say vast majority. But even if the 'vast majority' are not antisemites why do they not do anything about the extensive antisemitism at the marches? Many of the placards and chants are clearly against 2 states - pre 1948 borders, 'zionism no' etc etc.
I dont really understand your comments on zionism actually. Yes, the 90% figure is widely quoted and I see no reason to disbelieve it. Polling is not that complicated especially in such a small community.

The atrocities of the Yazidi doesn’t ever seem to have been addressed. They seem to be a peaceful, insular society that to the outside world seem a bit weird. They don’t appear to align with anyone else and get on with their way of life. They don’t control
any natural resources and had to rely on the Kurds.

Thank goodness they are marching to stop a genocide then and not supporting a terrorist organization.

@Martymcfly24 , how do you feel about the hostages which have not been released? The babies? Don’t you think campaigning for their release would be the best thing to end the conflict?

My original message which you had responded to said "most" in fact (ie "Most people are marching in support of a two state solution, to allow Palestinians and Israelis to each have land they call their own"; it did not say "terribly peaceful and fair minded" it said "Not all the marchers know the full history (which has also been explained here on other threads) but fundamentally the motivation of most demonstrators will be to do with being fair to both sides and to stop the deaths".

I haven't been to any marches but I have seen that in some there are some extreme groups, who hand out placards to people who do not really understand the meaning.

I have seen footage on the news and on youtube and I haven't seen any placards which said "no to the 2 state solution" personally and this would go against what most Arab countries voted for at the UN in 2023.

I haven't seen any which refer to pre 1947 borders which is not to say they don't exist, I just haven't seen them on footage. From a historical point of view the UN proposed borders in around 1947 were rejected as they were seen as unfair in terms of what land was given to whom, but afaik the concept of 2 borders was not rejected. And as I say, Arab countries are supporting a two state solution and some marchers will not know the full history and won't necessarily understand all the issues. I don't know why any anti semetic behaviour is allowed.

Can I just ask - do most Zionists want a two state solution? Re the 90 percent, I asked how that figure came about - I explained that in London not all Jewish people are registered anywhere as Jewish and if you say it is a poll can you say who exactly was polled and provide a copy?

Do you support a two state solution and if so, what do you think would be fair in terms of borders?

The Yazidi appeared on the news, and disappeared relatively quickly.

Why did Oct 7th get so much media attention (2K Israeli kill versus 5K Yasidi killed)? Frankly, I think we empathise a lot more with Israel, they are closer to us culturally, we see and can understand the way of life, we're sympathetic because it is a (flawed) democracy ... so many reasons. I've worked with Israel people, many have travelled there. Also the media have ready access and could report. As a result of these factors and many more it will

Why did Palestine killings get so much media attention (30k+ killed versus 5K Yasidi killed)? It's scale. The number of killings of innocent cilvilians is many order of magnitudes larger. Numbers matter.

What about the scale of the killings of Yemeni or in Darfur. In both cases, it's many more killed than in Gaza. When it's Muslim groups killing Muslim groups it passes by. But Israel predominantly Jewish v Gaza, predominantly Muslim country and its covered more.

The hostages should absolutely be released. Hamas are an evil group.

However let's not pretend the 97 hostages are the reason over 40,000 Palestinians have been murdered. Especially when we see conferences advertising the resettling of Gaza.

The only way to end the conflict is peace talks and compromise from both sides. Israel created this idealogy, they can't bomb it away.

You don't need to carry a placard saying 'no to a 2 state solution' to get across the idea that you oppose it. Chanting against zionism, widespread at the marches, is the ssme idea, as is a placard showing Palestine taking over the area occupied by Israel or placards calling for 1 state. All seen/heard on marches.

I'm not sure where you would expect people to be registered as Jewish - historically registering people by specific groups has often been the first step to genocide. You don't have to be registered to be polled - especially polling about self identified beliefs. Polling is quite a well developed practice but you would have to contact the polling organisations if you really need exact details about how a poll was conducted. There are various sources on the numbers of Jewish people who identify as 'zionist' two are here but there are others - variations probably come doen to how the question is framed and how zionist is defined. There are other sources, particularly about American Jews - I read an academic article but not sure where it was. The Pew Center might be another place to start but remember of course that the American Jewish community may take a different line to the British community. I have no idea if a sub set of specifically self identified zionists have been polled on the 2 state solution. But I can say, I have been to a lot of gatherings of Jewish people since 7 October, where senior rabbis and community leaders have spoken. On every occasion they have called for peace, justice for Jewish people and Palestinian people and for 2 states. On every occasion they have been applauded, despite the fact that in those audiences the majority probably have been directly impacted by the events of 7/10 in some way, many people having lost friends and relatives in that brutal event. https://fullfact.org/news/are-majority-british-jews-zionists/
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/eight-out-of-ten-british-jews-identify-as-zionist-says-new-poll-vu3f391c

Releasing those hostages would be the start of peace talks which we all of course hope for.

Stopping the occupation and annexation of land is a pretty important step in a peace process. The Occupied Territories should be free from Israeli occupation.

@Toomanywars starting with "what about ... " is a classic abourtery 😂 Doubtless you have your own theory and you'll come along to educate us.

Do you honestly in your heart believe that will happen or is it just a soundbite.

Do you think Netanyahu will enter in peace talks after the hostages are released? Why would he, what incentive does he have? Especially as once the dust settles and the full stories a d death toll emerges he will be tried as a war criminal.

@Martymcfly24 , yes I do.